since you don't understand how wholesale operates (large lead-times and poor service) and aren't really qualified size and business wise. rich Rich Williamson Pierre's Costumes 7882 Browning Road Pennsauken, NJ 08109 (formerly Miller Costume -1876 & Pierre of Philadelphia -1943) 609-486-1188 Phone 609-486-4402 Fax NOTE: 9-27-96 new address: costumes@mindspring.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Jan 3 10:12:37 1997 Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 10:06:58 -0800 From: Spook To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Death Studios was : Catalogues Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Rich, Bravo! I think you did an excellent job of explaining what I could not. Apparently, you also got tired of haunted house folks taking up your time at the trade show. It was a major bitch throughout the show. But.... as a haunted house owner... I loved strolling through the halls and seeing all the new toys! Gad Zooks! Also, there were several companies who made no bones about the fact that they were there to serve the haunted house trade, and not the retailers. I don't know what the show is going to do in the future. Haunted houses are becoming major players in the industry. Its no longer the private domain of lazy buyers who will accept whatever junk is put in front of them, and go to the Chicago show to smooze. The industry is changing. These days, a buyer for haunted house stuff may own several large houses, and he wants the cutting edge in props, costumes, and equipment. We just are no longer satisfied with the junk the buyers bring us. I don't care what the manufactures may promise, but money is money... they'll sell to anyone who gives them cash. Welcome to America! Okay... off my soapbox and back to my knitting. Mark From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Jan 3 12:44:45 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 14:29:24 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Death Studios was : Catalogues Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 11:26 AM 1/3/97 -0400, you wrote in part: (much deleted) >There is a reason there is a multi layered selling system in this country. >The manufacturers make millions of their product. They don't want to be >bothered unless you are placing huge orders and don't typically stock items >for immediate delivery. They make huge runs of products that are sold to >Distributors and wholesalers. These wholesalers stock the items and help >even out the surges in production schedules. The wholesalers then sell to >retailers in local areas who in turn sell to the public. Very true for the country at large but not typical of much of the Halloween industry. Most of the larger manufacturers will sell to anyone who can make the minimum opening order. I've NEVER been asked for my retail tax number from any of the biggies. It may not be right but that's how they do it. If a company accepts an order, whether it's $10.00 or $10,000.00 they should try to stand by their promised delivery date. We all blow deliveries by days for some reason or another... but months?! He's a "small buyer" is not an excuse for poor business practices. >The manufacturer or wholesaler could not care any less about a small pseudo >wholesale account who is buying $200 of stock when other real retailers are >spending thousands with them. The retailer will buy year-round and will be >in business in a few years. This is only true with high volume items and Jeff's comments would lead one to believe he is looking for unusual items, not the punch press garbage found in every drugstore on every corner at Halloween. Death Studios, the focus of his comments, is not high volume. Many of the companies supplying the haunted house trade would not be considered in this high volume, punch press category. I'm still amazed when I call a publisher and they have 3 copies of a book in stock... not the 100,000 we all imagine. While many costumes and accessories are high volume, haunted house items are often closer to being short run specialty products. Crappy fake teeth come by the millions from China, but books are often self published (on copying machines) and props made on a very small scale. Haunted house video tapes are run off one at a time by many of the producers. Despite what many people believe, the big numbers just aren't there for many items. >You (the original poster not Mark) would be better off finding a retailer >who you develop a business relationship with. Perhaps the retailer wioll >co-op advertise with you or give you substantial discounts for a plug at >your event. Some even give discounts for larger retail orders ( and the >prices are VERY close to wholesale) The original comments made by Jeff were about Death Studios, a company that does very little wholesale trade (by their own comments, I have talked to people at Death Studios but never bought from them). Most of their business is aimed at retail sales to mask collectors. There's no excuse for their lack of customer service. The little I know about Jeff leads me to believe that a simple, timely phone call from Death Studios would have left him with a better impression. >Bottom line don't pretend to be wholesale account when you obviously aren't >since you don't understand how wholesale operates (large lead-times and >poor service) and aren't really qualified size and business wise. I'm not exactly sure I understand this paragraph. "Business wise" I wouldn't agree with some of the language used to describe Death Studios in Jeff's post, though to an old sled jockey off the list it seems just perfect, maybe a little tame. I think Jeff is a bit more savvy about "business wise" than you give him credit for. He has every right to expect fair treatment by a company that takes his order. His impressions of a company are formed only by his dealings with it, it is any company's main goal to form a lasting good impression among its' customers, big or small. A company must form good impressions 99.9 percent of the time. 99.9 percent because in the real world there will always be a customer that will not be happy. Failure to form good impressions is the fault of the company not the customer. It's worked for me for a long time, by choice I run a very small company now, I've successfully run a company with sales in the millions... not big but not peanuts either. The same rules apply. Sure, it all may sound like pie in the sky, Business 101 drivel, but only if you don't have it deeply ingrained in your business beliefs. I'm late for Newark, catch ya'll Monday, Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Jan 3 12:57:20 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 14:51:05 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Death Studios was : Catalogues Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com > Its no longer the private domain of lazy buyers who will accept whatever junk >is put in front of them, and go to the Chicago show to smooze. The industry is >changing. These days, a buyer for haunted >house stuff may own several large houses, and he wants the cutting edge in >props, costumes, and >equipment. We just are no longer satisfied with the junk the buyers bring us. > I don't care what >the manufactures may promise, but money is money... they'll sell to anyone who >gives them cash. >Welcome to America! ...and welcome to the quality world of the haunted house owners industry whose catch phrase has become "crank through". I wonder how many people on the list paid their $10.00 to $15.00 bucks to go through a haunted house this past year and felt they got their money's worth in entertainment? Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Jan 3 14:58:33 1997 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 17:49:44 -0400 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: costumes@mindspring.com (Rich Williamson) Subject: Re: Death Studios was : Catalogues Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com snip> > >But.... as a haunted house owner... I loved strolling through the halls >and seeing all the new >toys! Gad Zooks! Also, there were several companies who made no bones >about the fact that they >were there to serve the haunted house trade, and not the retailers. I >don't know what the show >is going to do in the future. Haunted houses are becoming major players >in the industry. Its no >longer the private domain of lazy buyers who will accept whatever junk is >put in front of them, >and go to the Chicago show to smooze. The industry is changing. These >days, a buyer for haunted >house stuff may own several large houses, and he wants the cutting edge in >props, costumes, and >equipment. We just are no longer satisfied with the junk the buyers bring >us. I don't care what >the manufactures may promise, but money is money... they'll sell to anyone >who gives them cash. >Welcome to America! > agreed... a buck is a buck...but retailers like myself who have been in the business (over 50 years) won't put up with it for long. There are certain large distributors and manufacturers (who I'll leave anonymous on this posting) who sell to anyone out there. They only get my business if I have exhausted every other option. Hey, i also have to service the customer, but i won't make them money while I'm at it. I am a member of the National Costumers Association (a 75 + year old trade group. Made up out of 300 of the largest and more descriminating costume shops in the country.). We have all noticed that the chicago show is heading this way, and franky are not happy to see our customers from 5 years ago walking the aisles at the show. We have formed a group (remember we may be small but collectivly we spend literaly BILLIONS of $ with these vendors) to make sure that they hear our small business local home-town Mom & pop side of the story. Already we have found that this year the shows management company is requiring a yellow pages ad, business licence etc to prove that you are eligble to attend. It will likely go further next year. IF YOU ARE ALREADY a "real' customer (someone who is buying enough from the vendors already to truly qualify as a wholesale account) - you can show a letter from the specific vendor asking specifically for you to be invited -- this way you aren't thrown out on your ear but must be able to justify that you rate with at least one vendor.... If you are legitimate you should have no trouble doing this... Anyone who disagrees with this should have no problem with the fact that retail prices (in any kind of product or market) will go up all around so that retailers can cover their lost sales. I for one would be very happy to offer very substantial discounts to retail to any large account, but not wholesale. Rich Rich Williamson Pierre's Costumes 7882 Browning Road Pennsauken, NJ 08109 (formerly Miller Costume -1876 & Pierre of Philadelphia -1943) 609-486-1188 Phone 609-486-4402 Fax NOTE: 9-27-96 new address: costumes@mindspring.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Jan 3 15:10:37 1997 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:04:23 -0400 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: costumes@mindspring.com (Rich Williamson) Subject: Re: Death Studios was : Catalogues Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com > >Very true for the country at large but not typical of much of the Halloween >industry. Most of the larger manufacturers will sell to anyone who can make >the minimum opening order. >I've NEVER been asked for my retail tax number from any of the biggies. It >may not be right but that's how they do it. and I won't buy from those "biggies" unless pushed to do so. > >If a company accepts an order, whether it's $10.00 or $10,000.00 they should >try to stand by their promised delivery date. We all blow deliveries by days >for some reason or another... but months?! >He's a "small buyer" is not an excuse for poor business practices. agreed that the small size doesn't hold water...however the manufacturers shouldn't be selling at the wholesale level to end-users... that's just plain greedy and overextending their abilities. > >>Bottom line don't pretend to be wholesale account when you obviously aren't >>since you don't understand how wholesale operates (large lead-times and >>poor service) and aren't really qualified size and business wise. > > I'm not exactly sure I understand this paragraph. "Business wise" I >wouldn't agree with some of the language used to describe Death Studios in >Jeff's post, though to an old sled jockey off the list it seems just >perfect, maybe a little tame. you misunderstand my obviously colloqual term business-wise to mean knowledge of business... sorry... I meant it to mean : "relating to the scope of their business" >I think Jeff is a bit more savvy about "business wise" than you give him >credit for. He has every right to expect fair treatment by a company that >takes his order. yes, companies should service clients, however customers who are used to buying wholesale realize that wholesalers (unfortunatly ) are notorious for production delays, understocking, late shipping, high minimums, infelxible policies, and more. Now with that said there are some real obvious exceptions to that rule. I know when my customer needs it tommorrow I can get the same item from the manufacturer in 2 weeks or tommorrow from the 10 or so distributors that carry it in stock. yes, I will pay more (and so will the end-user) but they will get it tommorrow and I will get the needed service. A great example of this is latex masks... We all know we can get the same mask from at least 25 sources including the guy who made it. The guy who made it wants large orders placed many months ahead of time. This way the manufacturer can go to the bank with a million $ of orders written and get the bank to finance the production of the product over the summer. The bank gives the manufacturer 6 months to pay... the manufacturer extends 30 day terms knowing that they will have most of the money in 90 days ... then they pay the bank.... this is how the manufacturing game works... now where do you think you fit with your $100 order...? Rich Williamson Pierre's Costumes 7882 Browning Road Pennsauken, NJ 08109 (formerly Miller Costume -1876 & Pierre of Philadelphia -1943) 609-486-1188 Phone 609-486-4402 Fax NOTE: 9-27-96 new address: costumes@mindspring.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Jan 3 16:38:51 1997 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:31:29 -0800 (PST) From: Don Bertino To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: The flood waters are going down & please watch your langugue, folks. Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi All! Language I hope you all have a great and safe New Years! So many things, so little time (already?) BTW, if your wondering, the flood waters only got with 1/2 mile from my home, so no big worries. It would have had to bust thru one more dike before we would have had to seek higher ground, but I was nervous last night.... :( Thank god for sunshine! I'm sorry I havn't been around much lately, and have turned into a lurker alittle, but with the mother-in-law and grandmother-in-law in town (for 6 months) and the sister-in-law in the three weeks.... HELP!!!!! :) I'd like to please remind people that there are young adults as well as children that read this list, so please, please watch your language, ok? Rant, but don't swear, or I'll send you a ascii bar of soap to wash your mouth out with..... :) Thanks for your consideration & understanding in this matter. don bertino@netcom.com ____/^\_____________________________________ Disney ascii art & / \ || FDC MCP || / \ animations are at <______\ [] [] [] || [] [] [] || [] [] [] /______> http://www.calweb.com \----------------||----------||----------------/=== /~bertino===============\______________||__________||______________/===== From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Jan 3 19:56:18 1997 Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 13:22:23 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: "Curious" Thread (link game) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com John, I really love the idea of a coast to coast game. And the idea of Kathy's Crypt made me think of another entrance to the haunt! They could enter through my crypt, into underground tunnels {full of terrors of course} and then into the haunt. This sounds wonderful.. Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Jan 3 20:35:35 1997 Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 23:30:17 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: jasonch@jersey.net (Jason Christman) Subject: Re: "Curious" Thread (link game) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >John, > I really love the idea of a coast to coast game. And the idea of >Kathy's Crypt made me think of another entrance to the haunt! They could >enter through my crypt, into underground tunnels {full of terrors of >course} and then into the haunt. This sounds wonderful.. >Kathy >the new kid on the crypt >mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com > DELURKING IN PROGRESS... Hi all, I've haven't contributed anything until now...'cause pretty much everything that you've been discussing is beyond me :) I'm just starting in elaborate halloween stuff...and don't really know much...but I'm learnin' quick! Anyway...the idea of this virtual haunt, coast to coast game really sound cool. I think that linking peoples sites together is the way to go...that way the haunt's just gonna really grow...and let everyone contribute really easy. Just my humble opinion... Jason Christman From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Jan 3 20:36:15 1997 Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 14:02:03 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: The flood waters are going down & please watch your langugue, folks. Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Don, very glad that you are OK!! It was hard watching the news yesterday and not knowing if you were in the middle of that or not!! Now I know if you had to grab one thing before you ran out of the house you would have a really hard time. The Skull, the reindeer, or the wife and kid!!! You would have a hard one there!! :) Just kidding Denise, I know he wouldn't worry about the skull he could always get a new one!! Kathy the new kid on the crypt glad to be above flood level!! mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Jan 3 20:50:14 1997 Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 14:15:25 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: "Curious" Thread (link game) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Jason, Glad to see you delurk and give us your opion!! Join in anytime and let us know what you are up to!! You can never start to soon on the plans for your haunt!! Welcome to the Graveyard Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 00:50:11 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 23:50:34 -0700 Subject: Trade Show.... To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Rich I would tend to disagree about the show being closed to the public on one point. I too, work in an industry (arcade game manufacturer) that goes through a line of distributors for our product. Our home and arcade units go through seperate distributor chains. At the industry shows such as IAPPA, AMOA and the like, the retail customers attend to see what is the newest products they can purchase from their distributors. Product exposure is the main point there, and any customer who wishes to purchase is referred to our distributors. I would like to attend the Chicago trade show someday, not to purchase but to see what is available in the field. I can then ask for distributor references to purchase. Harry (sorry bout the 3 messages off the threads, but some server at Polaris@pacificnet.net has barfed it all over my mailing, conking me short :( [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 00:51:27 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 23:49:32 -0700 Subject: Running the business To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Who was the one who does not know on running the business? I'd say I can vouch that it was NOT JB Corn. After I purchased his book from you, I went cover to cover a couple of times. I ended up Emailing him on some points and observations from his book. He was very gracious on replying and we had a running set of Emails going for a while. When I can get some more $$$ free, you'll see my order in the mail for the other book and video, Denny :) Harry on another aside, just came back from Mediamation. They are right on the way home from my job. I had called asking for a brochure set. The owner was very kind in showing me around. The main unit he showed me was under constuyrction, but it was a simulator controller for a park overseas. He also mentioned they had haunted house software for running their show controllers. Their system networks through MIDI, strangely enough. Some of their haunted house work inclused the local Magic Mountain haunt, and one for the Arizona State Fair. Leafing through the literature turned up some goodies such as a Midi controller servo controller PCB, light dimmer racks, and robotics controllers. Whew! Their website is www.mediamat.com, or email at mediamation@aol.com . [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 00:56:43 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 23:50:02 -0700 Subject: Death Studios.... To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Denny, you bring up a can of worms I would like to comment on, the crank through type of haunted houses. Generally, I feel I get my money's worth at haunted houses except for one I panned pretty nastily last year "The House" or Orange County. It was at a time out here when $6 was the norm admission, and they went for $9. It was built in a large store space, but there were many reasons I found it boring and predictable. The same applied to the one at Universal Studios last year. (The House I panned 2 years ago, not last year). The Universal/Spencer's Gifts haunted house was high budget, but it exemplified crank through, with another boring and predictable set of scenarios. I have yet to through an Elm Street crank through. When they get one in the LA area, I hope to review one of those as well. One of my favorite haunted houses I worked one year was the House of (whoops), Chamber of Horrors in Anaheim. Unfortunately, they are no more. They merged with House of Terror, which is run by Anaheim Entertainment, and which also gets a 9 in my book. Chamber of Horrors was a portable, round 6,000 SQ feet. Original sets, lots of actors, great soundtracks, it was a stunningly great haunted house. Several computers were used in soundtracks and show control. Even a set of robotics made their appearance. Some of my favorite props used were the Crash Koaster (which I outlined as compared to the mining car previously), and this great Egyptian pyramid set. It was around 30 feet tall, built of a wood frame, Egyptian music inside, and spiders. The spiders were the pain for me. They all ran on small homemade winching motor assemblies, and a program would send the spiders jumping or racing up and down. The fishline would always snarl, making me climb the #$%#%^ pyramid to fix them. And I'm scared of heights! This was most definitely NOT a crank through type of haunted house. One other truly great haunted house value ou here is the Knotts Halloween Haunt. $30, but you get more entertainment for your dollar than anywhere else. NOWADAYS, some companies crank out pre-packaged haunted house items and rooms. Show controllers are more high tech, which unfortuantely leads to the rise of the pre-made modular haunted house, or the crank through. Storyline and style is forgotten in the high budget to get the neatest electric chair effect (boo on Queen Mary), or the latest foamed gravestones. Some of the fun is homemade props, and spooks who have a grand old time scaring people. The aura of getting new and unknown scares from around the next corner gets lost to basically walking through a dealer's cataloag. And I am rambling again, so I better stop...but you get the idea :) Harry needing food desperately... [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 04:53:33 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 06:35:59 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Running the business Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 11:49 PM 1/3/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Who was the one who does not know on running the business? I'd say I can >vouch that it was NOT JB Corn. Hey AKA Harry, No, it was not JB. He can be pretty quiet at times but he always comes through. Denny From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 04:53:33 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 06:36:00 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Death Studios was : Catalogues Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 06:04 PM 1/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >agreed that the small size doesn't hold water...however the manufacturers >shouldn't be selling at the wholesale level to end-users... that's just >plain greedy and overextending their abilities. > All, This is getting way off the original poster's thread so this will be my last post to the list on the subject, any follow-ups will be direct. The new agenda of who can go to trade shows was not part of the original "warning post" and will be ignored here. and on we go... The original poster was warning people about Death Studios and their rather lengthy delivery times on his orders. This is a company that primarily does retails sales through a retail catalog. At no time in his original post did he state he was trying to buy wholesale or representing himself as a wholesale buyer. I should add that I have only talked to people at Death Studios but have never ordered retail or wholesale from them myself. I do not in any way mean to "dis" Death Studios but am continually confused as to why the original poster is taking the heat, so to speak, for Death Studios' retail business practices from a couple of people on this list. Death Studios seems to have made no attempt to inform their customer of delayed deliveries or amend the problems. A customer can not be blamed for this. Death Studios' catalog raises expectations for the customer and sets very few conditions, this is very basic retail advertising practice. Failure to meet those expectations is the fault of the dealer. >> I'm not exactly sure I understand this paragraph. "Business wise" I >>wouldn't agree with some of the language used to describe Death Studios in >>Jeff's post, though to an old sled jockey off the list it seems just >>perfect, maybe a little tame. > >you misunderstand my obviously colloqual term business-wise to mean >knowledge of business... >sorry... I meant it to mean : "relating to the scope of their business" > The customer/poster did every thing correctly for Death Studios' "scope of business". Their catalog asks for a $25.00 minimum order, nothing more, and warns of "up to" 12 weeks delivery, not five months. > >>I think Jeff is a bit more savvy about "business wise" than you give him >>credit for. He has every right to expect fair treatment by a company that >>takes his order. > >yes, companies should service clients, however customers who are used to >buying wholesale realize that wholesalers... This does not excuse poor customer service when a person orders retail from a retail catalog... the concerns of the original post. > >I know when my customer needs it tommorrow I can get the same item from the >manufacturer in 2 weeks or tommorrow from the 10 or so distributors that >carry it in stock. yes, I will pay more (and so will the end-user) You pay a distributor more for wholesale than a manufacturer, for the same items and quantity? Your jobbers should be paying distributor pricing to the manufacturers. >they will get it tommorrow and I will get the needed service. A great >example of this is latex masks... We all know we can get the same mask from >at least 25 sources including the guy who made it. The guy who made it >wants large orders placed many months ahead of time. This way the >manufacturer can go to the bank with a million $ of orders written and get >the bank to finance the production of the product over the summer. The >bank gives the manufacturer 6 months to pay... the manufacturer extends 30 >day terms knowing that they will have most of the money in 90 days ... then >they pay the bank.... Yes, quite often, but only a few mask makers have sales in the millions. Death Studios, I strongly suspect, is not one of them. Since Death Studios was the topic of the poster's warnings this does nothing to clear the air on their specific retail business practices. > >this is how the manufacturing game works... Cool, I'd be happy to debate our respective knowledge of the "manufacturing game" off the list. >now where do you think you fit with your $100 order...? Save the attitude. I placed hundreds of $100.00 orders last year and many more well above and well below that figure. Which one are you referring too? ...then I'll tell you where it fits, again off the list. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 06:01:53 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 07:46:26 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re:Trade Show & banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 11:50 PM 1/3/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Rich I would tend to disagree about the show being closed to the public >on one point. I too, work in an industry (arcade game manufacturer) that >goes through a line of distributors for our product. Our home and arcade >units go through seperate distributor chains. At the industry shows such >as IAPPA, AMOA and the like, the retail customers attend to see what is >the newest products they can purchase from their distributors. Product >exposure is the main point there, and any customer who wishes to >purchase is referred to our distributors. Hey AKA Harry, This is a very good, nothing short of an excellent point, many trade shows open to the public on specified days and save a couple days just for buyers. ------------------------------------------ Now with tongue in cheek (and the product of a "red eye" back from Newark) I would suggest the following to make the show more suitable for me... I really don't care about anyone else- 1.Set aside certain hours for people over 60 who tend to putter around and clog up the aisles. Overheard at the last show- "Hey, how much is that wrinkled up corpse? I don't see it on the price list." "Huh? oh, that's Billy Bob Adams the founder and president of our company, he's fallen asleep again, make me an offer." 2.Keep really tall people out of the show all together. Sorry good friend Stu, but maybe they'll let you in to number 8 below. 3.Forbid costume people from actually displaying the costumes only they seem impressed with, why is Billy Bob's bride of 50 years always showing up in a belly dancer outfit? 4. People deemed unworthy by a few self selected, pompous big wigs (not necessarily wig dealers) or unable to write a minimum yet unspecified amount of paper at the show should "disappear" entirely. 5. Really short people who are insurance risks because they always bump their heads on the edges of tables should of course be kept out. This is standard at all trade shows. 6. Open the show to pre-school kids for two days to road test all those cutting edge props that can't seem to work for one month out of the year. 7. Anyone who states- "by golly I started this industry" will be put on the Big Wig committee and given the life long, achievement medal of merit, the coveted Pour le Pompous. 8. One large area of the show should feature nickel beers, wet T-shirt contests, tattoo artists and Honda drops. This is where you'll find me. Regards, Denny "Please send flames direct" Dahm B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 06:22:51 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 08:07:39 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Death Studios was : Catalogues Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 06:36 AM 1/4/97 -0600, you wrote: >At 06:04 PM 1/3/97 -0400, I wrote: >and on we go... > The original poster was warning people about Death Studios and their rather >lengthy delivery times on his orders. This is a company that primarily does >retails sales through a retail catalog. At no time in his original post did >he state he was trying to buy wholesale or representing himself as a >wholesale buyer. Whoa, I just re-read that paragraph. I should have gotten some sleep first... or not slept through English class many years ago, sorry about the wondrous grammar. Denny From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 08:01:59 1997 Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 09:49:23 -0800 From: The Proctors To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Curious, new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5B993B5A363D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit htraver@dreamsys.com wrote: > > Instead of a graphic virtual haunt type of thing, why not have one where > us members create a set using rich text to describe the rooms and a > simple GIF picture for a top view, or a drawn picture of the concept. > Much better than the virtual type garbage available on the net these > days. This way, we can let our imaginations run wild..... > > Harry > > [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] > [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] Finally able to post after being in Austin, TX a few days and my server allegedly going down while I was reading new msgs. so I couldn't immediately post... About that virtual haunt thread, it really reminded me about a haunted house in Austin, TX with a cool web site. A millionaire in Austin (computers, I believe) used his mansion, 5 acres, swimming pool, etc. to create a huge, free haunted house. Its only open for a few days and only done every couple of yrs. I think they've held it twice now. The web page is from the 1994 haunt. (next one not 'til 1998) Its called Britannia Manor and I didn't mention it before because I guess I just thought you guys knew all the haunted places already! (Sorry for the delay if you haven't heard of it yet!) People camp out for a week ahead of time to be one of the lucky ones to get in. The web site has lots of photos and text, includes the premise, some contruction stuff and some daytime pictures. Ya gotta go!! Maybe our handful of Austinites can add more details. The site is: karen p cproctor@flash.net --------------5B993B5A363D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="bmanor94.html" Britannia Manor 94

Britannia Manor '94 - Descent Into Darkness

News! Britannia Manor '94 is a Cool Site of the Hour!


[Cool Site of the Hour]

Also, please note that there is NO BRITANNIA MANOR '96. The next one will be no sooner than 1998, if ever, due to a change of venue.



What is Britannia Manor? It's a no-holds-barred full-contact haunted house. It's tough to get in, and tougher to get out. Be prepared to swim, crawl, climb, negotiate, solve puzzles, and run like hell. And, of course, be scared in some imaginatively terrifying ways. If you've been here before and just want to check out new additions, go to What's New.

Descent Into Darkness



You've got to have a pretty good reason to enter the Inferno. The premise for the '94 Manor was that the Inferno had intruded onto good Lord British's house and grounds, and the guests have to enter the Inferno to retrieve the magical Star of Palestine and save the Avatar. For the full description, see The Premise.

Where



Britannia Manor is held (usually) every two years at the house and grounds of Origin Systems co-founder Richard Garriott (aka Lord British), in Austin, Texas. It's a big production, using every corner of RG's palatial mansion, including the indoor/outdoor pool and dungeon, as well as most of the 5 acres of surrounding ground.

When



The '94 incarnation of the Manor was held for four days at Halloween. Of course, the construction of the Manor had been going on for several months. Planning started well before that, early in the summer of '94. Cleanup afterwards took only 12 days, thanks to the tireless efforts of many volunteers.

Who



Speaking of volunteers, Britannia Manor '94 was designed, built, staffed, maintained, and destroyed by an all-volunteer force of lunatics. No pay stubs were harmed in the production of this haunted house. It took about 400 lost souls to build the thing, and over 200 warm (?) bodies to pull off a production night, including actors, technicians, firemen, safety crew, fixers of broken things and food preparers.



Admittance into Britannia Manor is traditionally free. A block of tickets was donated to a local theater group, which sold them as a fundraising proposition. The majority were handed out on a first-come, first served basis on performance nights. Of course, the line was a bit long; people camped out for a week in line. That wasn't just a few diehards trying to be first. The entire series of performance nights was full from people in line a full week before the first run night. The impromptu campsites up and down the road bore an uncanny resemblance to Woodstock.

What



Britannia Manor '94 consumed vast quantities of lumber, paint, makeup, and electricity. Hollywood-quality prosthetic makeup was provided for major characters. Over $100,000 of lasers, fog machines, and sophisticated light and sound effects gear was loaned to the production by generous sponsors.

Why



Why would anyone go to this much trouble to scare the wits out of people? Or wait a week in line to be scared for an hour? The guests get an unparalleled personal adventure fueled by the talents and imaginations of hundreds of the most fiendish hams on the planet. The volunteers get to participate in a spectacular production as insiders, with all the pride of saying "I built that", or "I scared some lady so much she wet her pants." As for Richard Garriott, I'll just quote one of the volunteers who said "If you had a gajillion dollars and loved haunted houses, what would you do?"

The Virtual Manor


The Virtual Britannia Manor '94 is set up in four parts.
All sections are as cross-linked as I can manage with the photos I have. For each station on the Guided Tour, I've attempted to link to photos of construction activity in that area, and to the people directly involved with running the area. All photos are linked to large versions of the same image. This is very much a work in progress; look at What's New for changes since your last visit.

There have been 525souls wandering here.


Other Halloween Links

Credits

The premise, and the script for Britannia Manor '94 were masterfully crafted by Brian Martin.
All layout and other text is (c) 1996 "Dammit" Jim Gould.
All photographs are (c) 1994 Richard Garriott except for the photo of "Dammit" Jim, which is (c) 1994 Susan Johns.
Thanks to Aaron Allston for the site maps.
Thanks to all participants in Britannia Manor '94 - Descent Into Darkness for creating such a wonderfully bizarre experience.
A special thank you to Saint Tassie, for publicizing these pages above and beyond the call of duty.

Direct questions and comments to Jim Gould (jgould@io.com)
Visit my home page at http://www.io.com/~jgould/ for more interesting stuff, including the KHFI Raft race.
--------------5B993B5A363D-- From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 09:00:49 1997 Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 10:49:54 -0800 From: The Proctors To: halloween-l Subject: new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I *thought* I included a TX haunt's website as a URL link, but I'm not sure, it looks a little strange on my end. Just to be certain, here it is in text: www.io.com/~jgould/bmanor/bmanor94.html Sorry for duplication. Go check out this site. Allow yourself plenty of time! karen p cproctor@flash.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 09:12:38 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 09:08:26 -0700 Subject: Re:Trade Show & banter To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Pending those conditions, you will find me at the trade show rolling in the aisles laughing my rear off and scaring the cat! [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 09:17:55 1997 Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 12:00:21 -0500 From: Outlander To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: SIMON'S REVENGE was: Death Studios was : Catalogues Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Holy Cow! Man, I vented a little on my many years of disappointing treatment from Death Studios, I wake up and check the list 24 hrs. later and a major you-know-what has broken out. First of all, thank you Denny speaking up for me when my attention was elsewhere. You are a true gentleman. I am glad that you can still identify with those of us on the list who are enthusiasts, rather than company giants, Haunted House owners or the like. Secondly, allow me to apologize to those I might have offended with the small profane portion in my previous tirade. My frustration obviously got the better of me and I pledge that it will not happen again on this list. [pulls out the soapbox] I don't know where the gentlemen who questioned my ire got the idea I was representing myself as a major supplier. Just a Halloween afficianado. Denny was absolutely correct, just one call from Death Studios to inform me that they had a problem with my order would have sufficed to mollify me. I felt like a kid at Christmas waiting for my presents to come. Oh yeah, kid, sorry, forgot to mention to you, due to production difficulties, Christmas was canceled this year. Sorry we couldn't tell you about it until Christmas morning either, after you made all those preparations and wasted all that effort on getting things ready. But here's a nice catalogue. Don't forget to send Santa your wish list a little ealier this year. You still won't get anything, but what the hey .... What angered me about Death Studios was the fact that I had to hunt them down like a rabid coon in order to get some kind of confirmation that my order would NOT be arriving. The only clue I had was when the 25th of October had arrived and I still had nothing. I had to call them three times, just to get the bad news. And then they still lied to me, promising that I would at least get the Mask. Death Studios would have been perfectly happy if the news had been broken to me when I opened my mailbox on Halloween to find that nothing had arrived. I boldly decry that this is cowardice. I would like to point out to whichever gentleman was complaining about my lead time that I received incomplete orders five years IN A ROW, no matter how far in advance I place my order. One year I placed my order within a week of receiving their catalogue and they still didn't come through for me. How is that my fault? If they can't get the orders filled, they need to plainly advertise that the orders are for the subsequent year. How much lead time would you consider adequate? I understand that things are busy July through October. I'm an understanding guy. But when I order three or four months in advance, they take my order and make no mention of any problems filling my order, they have made a contract with me, even if it is only implied. I have given them my faith and money. What did they do with it? I didn't mean to come on like I was such a big shot that they should hire a third shift just to fill my dinky little order. What I meant was that I have sent them nearly two thousand dollars worth of orders in the past four years, which is not a small investment when you consider that I am not in "the business", just a small-time home decorator. The fact that I might appear small-time to some corporate giants does not mean that I do not deserve the consideration of a simple phone call, telling me that Death Studios will not be able to fulfill their end of the contract, a contract they entered into when they accepted my order for the items fourteen weeks in advance with no mention of anticipated difficulties. In return for what I consider miserable service rendered to an [until then] loyal customer [especially in light of the minor miracle that Denny at TERROR BY DESIGN managed to pull off for me subsequently ] I was excercising my God-Given right to complain about it and warn other "small-timers" like myself what to expect from that company. The FACT is that Death Studios is NOT a major player in the business, most of their business comes from "small-timers" like MYSELF in the private sector, and I am FAR from the first contributor on this list to get shafted by them and voice their disgruntlement. Those of you who don't like the fact that I have the unmitigated gall to speak up for myself and warn others of what happened to me will just have to lump it. Those of you who who can make excuses for the behavior of Death Studios will deserve it when your customers desert you or you are run out of business by even more unprincipled businessmen. And I will continue to laud LOUDLY, PROUDLY and OFTEN anyone who does me such a good turn as was done for me this Halloween by Denny of TERROR BY DESIGN . If you competitors out there want people to speak of you in a likewise positive manner ... do them the same way, showing the same amount of actual concern for your customers that Denny does, rather than just chasing the almighty dollar. [steps off soapbox] I bid you good day, regret the uproar, and hope everyone gets their order in early this year. Happy Haunting. -- `'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,. "Get a new President." - Snake Plissken Jeff A. Simon Express elevator to Hell, going down. Home: Business: No current address for business eMAIL `'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,. From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 09:17:57 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 09:10:26 -0700 Subject: bmanor94.HTM Re: Curious, new hh URL To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Ah, you reached the haunt of Lord British, aka Richard Garriot, founder of Origin. Britannia Manor is a locale in his Ultima games. Do you know if he did it again last year or next? :) Harry Traver (Tony Gonzalez, composer of Ultima 1 GS music) [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 10:44:03 1997 Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 13:33:33 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Moon Subject: Re: bmanor94.HTM Re: Curious, new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >Ah, you reached the haunt of Lord British, aka Richard Garriot, founder >of Origin. Britannia Manor is a locale in his Ultima games. Do you know >if he did it again last year or next? :) > Nope, not enough fundage. -=0=--=0=--=0=--=0=--=0=--=0=--=0=- Moon Fiberopt@Pipeline.COM Now is the Time Now is the Hour Ours is the Magick Ours is the Power -=0=--=0=--[Winter]--=0=--=0=- From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 16:11:52 1997 Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 09:33:28 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Karen, What a great site. I just spent almost two hours checking every little thing that they had on it. I agree with the owner, if I had all that money and a love for haunted houses I know I would do the same thing!! What a blast that man must have. By the way, can one of the great members of this list post me the directions for how to get on the list. I know I should know this but I am not techno dummy for nothing. A couple of the sites that I have been to lately and checked out have asked about the list. I would like to be able to tell them how to join! thanks Kathy the new kid on the crypt!! mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Jan 4 23:39:55 1997 Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 02:29:04 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Re: How To Operate A HH book Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com > Anyone who has delayed buying "How To Operate" should contact John at Mr. >Scary Productions to make sure they get a copy on order before it disappears >for awhile. >Denny > Denny is correct, orders for the books are being done now. The ones I have: * = few in stock Grande Illusions, * Grande Illusions II * Scare Tactics * "How to operate/Haunted House" * Dick Smith's MONSTER MAKE-UP Dr. Lady's Guide to TV & Movie monster masks (The "how to" for a collector) Prop Builders handbook 3D make-up (Thurston James) Monster Makers Handbook Mask Makers Handbook Every year I try to get as many as possible, but by October I have few if any left. If you wait until Aug-September, stock with many retailers will be very low. The "How to operate/Haunted House" is a tough one to keep around. Videos are in high demand as well, and again, once I'm out...I'm out. I have several videos, any questions please E-mail to the address below. Hauntingly, John ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 00:42:02 1997 Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 02:29:49 -0800 From: The Proctors To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: bmanor94.HTM Re: Curious, new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com htraver@dreamsys.com wrote: > > Ah, you reached the haunt of Lord British, aka Richard Garriot, founder > of Origin. Britannia Manor is a locale in his Ultima games. Do you know > if he did it again last year or next? :) > > Harry Traver > (Tony Gonzalez, composer of Ultima 1 GS music) > > [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] > [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] Didn't happen in 1996, a note near the top of the site says they'll be back no sooner than 1998, if ever, due to a change in venue. Guess Mr. Millionaire wanted his mansion back, I dunno. I do know it got a lot of publicity in Austin (saw some TV footage while I was in town in 94 and something in the paper, too) so if it ever comes back, they've already got a lot of people waiting for it, since only a limited amt. of people got to see it before. Maybe some of the organizers/volunteers are trying to make a go of it. Can't imagine anyone else lending their mansion for it so maybe someone's trying to build it as a regular, paying haunt. No more free admission! karen p cproctor@flash.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 00:58:33 1997 Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 02:38:50 -0800 From: The Proctors To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Michael Marcrum wrote: > > Karen, > What a great site. I just spent almost two hours checking every little > thing that they had on it. I agree with the owner, if I had all that > money and a love for haunted houses I know I would do the same thing!! > What a blast that man must have. I told you to allow some time to do it right! I like how they shared a lot of pictures and the premise behind many of the rooms and the overall haunt. Now you can see why all that talk of a virtual haunt and/or one with text and pictures reminded me of that web site. Sorry I didn't tell y'all earlier. Oh well, who had time to look at it last fall, right? karen p cproctor@flash.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 01:37:28 1997 Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 03:26:53 -0800 From: The Proctors To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Dallas area only; Re: How To Operate A HH book Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com **Dallas-area only** Trust me, I am *definitely not* trying to cut into anyone's book sales but I wanted to mention that if anyone's interested, a few of the books listed for purchase below can be previewed locally if you're not sure they're what you're looking for. (or if you don't buy a copy soon and they run out of stock!) The Plano Public Library has: How to Operate HH book (1985 and 1987 copies, according to their computer BBS) Dick Smith's Monster Make-up book (definitely 1 and possibly 2 copies) Prop Builders Molding and Casting Handbook (plus 2 other books on props by James Thurston) They tend to group certain subjects at a particular branch and most of these are sitting at the Schmilpfenig branch right by my house. I don't know if they had some really cool donors or Halloween-savvy librarians. There's also a couple of books in the city of Allen's library system. Whatever your north Texas city, you can probably do an inter-library loan. Or check the shelves in your own city, you may be surprised. karen p cproctor@flash.net John P. Jeffries wrote: > > > > Anyone who has delayed buying "How To Operate" should contact John at Mr. > >Scary Productions to make sure they get a copy on order before it disappears > >for awhile. > >Denny > > > > Denny is correct, orders for the books are being done now. The ones I have: > > * = few in stock > > Grande Illusions, * > Grande Illusions II * > Scare Tactics * > "How to operate/Haunted House" * > Dick Smith's MONSTER MAKE-UP > Dr. Lady's Guide to TV & Movie monster masks (The "how to" for a collector) > Prop Builders handbook > 3D make-up (Thurston James) > Monster Makers Handbook > Mask Makers Handbook From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 04:14:13 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 06:02:15 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Dallas area only; Re: How To Operate A HH book Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 03:26 AM 1/5/97 -0800, you wrote: >**Dallas-area only** > >Trust me, I am *definitely not* trying to cut into anyone's book sales but I >wanted to mention... >The Plano Public Library has:... Absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you're not sure you want to buy a book for whatever reason, just check your local library first, I have no doubt John would agree. I very often get e-mail asking what's a good book for this or that and I usually try to suggest begging or borrowing a copy first. Even when libraries don't have copies on hand they can often get books on loan from other libraries or schools. Just ask 'em, they always seem happy to do it at my library. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 10:32:44 1997 From: "Jim Baggett" To: Subject: MonsterMakers site Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:20:16 -0500 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I found this site the other day. One of you may have already mentioned it and I missed your post. But on the off chance it wasn't it's http:///www.monstermakers.com They have a how to make a latex mask there that is very interesting and some other cool stuff. Charmaine From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 13:23:55 1997 Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 17:12:45 -0800 From: "K. Long" To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Web Page Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Greetings all you Ghouls, Ghoulettes, Zombies, Mummies and various other monsters. Just wanted to let you know that i've finally got my main home page up. So far just some links and One picture of yours truely. I am working on posting the Ultimate Haunt information that I have gotten so far. I think we've got a great entrance up to the point of nearing the house. As soon as I get this finished i'll post the link to it from my page which can be accessed at http://web2.airmail.net/dokktor If you have a link that you think I should add please let me know. Hauntingly, Keith From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 14:09:04 1997 Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 01:45:35 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: bmanor94.HTM Re: Curious, new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Karen, If I had that much money and I loved Halloween ( well I have one out of two of these ) I would do the same thing. I would have it ever year though!! Maybe some troubles with insurance. After checking it out I can see a lot of possibilities for problems!! but what great fun!! Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 14:10:13 1997 Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 01:48:35 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Karen, That site is just what I had in mind. Between pictures and drawings you felt like you were going through the haunt yourself!! And the makeup and props were great!! I am still waiting for a reply to the email I sent!! Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 14:29:58 1997 Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 17:01:45 -0400 From: Jason R To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Death Studios was : Catalogues Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com milwiron@btprod.com wrote: ...and welcome to the quality world of the haunted house owners industry > whose catch phrase has become "crank through". > I wonder how many people on the list paid their $10.00 to $15.00 bucks to go > through a haunted house this past year and felt they got their money's worth > in entertainment? > Denny > > B.T. Productions' Terror By Design > Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares > ' You know, I had to add something to this.. The only time I felt like I got my moneys worth this year was at Univeral Studies Halloween Horrer Nights 96 in Flordia. Really it was about 40.00, BUT there were 3 haunted house, one lame, the other okay, the other okay. On there own, not good, but adding them up with the effects and such, good!. BUT also there was a parade with pryo and stuff, PLUS most of the rides were open with little lines. Lighting effects and fog all over the parks put it over the top. Each on there own isnt worth 40.00, but adding it up I would say about 99% of the time I felt it was worth the money {1% was when it went from 80* outside to 50* in a half hour, but that's not under anyones control} Local places well, even the one that is done every year for the last 8 years now wasnt worth as much as they charge {Sure the money went to find a cure for cancer.} Still the basic fact is that, Orgnaltily counts more at least for me, than does props. Anyone can hang up a skelton. But only some can add some motion to it, some lights and sound and make you think it is alive and scare the Sh** out of ya! Jay -- Jason R Member FDC {Beach Club lighting tech} VRC Homepage, Use it to find out ALL your Disney info needs. --Http://www.vivanet.com/~thelazer -- "I told'em the truth, and they fell for it"-Harry Anderson. From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 14:43:33 1997 Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 17:34:15 -0500 From: Nightmare To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Running the business Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com htraver@dreamsys.com wrote: > > Who was the one who does not know on running the business? I'd say I can > vouch that it was NOT JB Corn. After I purchased his book from you, I > went cover to cover a couple of times. I ended up Emailing him on some > points and observations from his book. He was very gracious on replying > and we had a running set of Emails going for a while. When I can get > some more $$$ free, you'll see my order in the mail for the other book > and video, Denny :) What are the names of the books/videos by JB Corn? I would be interested in purchasing them. What are the prices? Allan Nightmare Forest...Experience the Fear! From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 16:06:11 1997 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Jim Kadel Subject: Re: Death Studios was : Catalogues Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:55:48 -0700 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 05:01 PM 1/5/97 -0400, Jay wrote when describing the 1% of a Universal Studios haunt that wasn't his choice {an outdoor temperature change} >1% was when it went from 80* outside to 50* in a half hour Jay, Altho it's not exactly the same thing, this kind of temperature change fits the "cold spot" concept for haunts. My idea would be to have a room with walk over grill and forced upward moving chilled air (at 45 F or so) which would be a precursor to a "ghostly" appearance. The chilled air, moving slowly so that its upward force would be imperceptable except as a temperature drop. Jim Kadel (Jimk@rica.net) From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 22:12:17 1997 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 01:19:40 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: POGRAM CRASH Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi all! I was here printing out customers for snail mail address and my program puked. Even though I keep names/numbers on paper, most snail mail is on disk. So, if you sent in an address for information, please drop a e-mail (to me) and I'll add you once again. If not, I'll have to call anyone I don't have printed out. Information needed: Name or initials Street address with zip code State Attn to: (if needed) phone (optional) Again, sorry for the problem. John (Taking an Axe to the hard drive) ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 23:28:00 1997 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Jim Kadel Subject: Spcl Info - Pls Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 00:18:00 -0700 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com John, I intend starting a small Internet business for specialty products of my own manufacture for the "Haunt" Industry. In particular I plan to market in my first year two electrical products: One is "spooky light", a 120 vac controller that operates up to 1000 watts of incandescent lights. It causes the lights to eerily flicker, dim, brighten and flash in a cycled pattern. I expect this item to cost me $20 in 100's. The other would be inexpensive Event Control Timers that are wired as per the wiring diagram and description that should now reside in the Halloween-L archives called "ECT". However, I'd build these from 556 chips, and hopefully could build them [operating loads at 120 volts up to 3 amps] for under $15. An additional relay module costing $6, might be offered for current loads up to 10 amps. Costs are estimates and are for ref. only. I don't know if you'd be interested in carrying my products or not? Perhaps it would be wise to sit back and just see "if they fly" so to speak. I can understand this approach. However, if you'd want more info and might like a more active role, perhaps we could work out a deal whereby I'd supply and you'd sell?? Jim Kadel (Jimk@rica.net) 1/6/97 540-828-4244 (Eastern Time Zone) From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Jan 5 23:39:10 1997 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Jim Kadel Subject: GOOF-oh-MATIC Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 00:30:57 -0700 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com P-L-E-A-S-E disregard my former message today (1/6/97) about the two electrical products I plan to market this year. This was private Email that I did not intend to post to the List as yet. Thanks for your "early morning" understanding, Jim Kadel (Jimk@rica.net) 1/6/97 From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 00:21:05 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 00:14:20 -0700 Subject: Re: Running the business To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com (Allan asking about the JB Corn book) The one book I purchased was the book "How to build a portable modular dark attraction (a haunted house). The book is rather pricey (call your distributor for price, BT.Prod has and does great service, but you already knew that). One warning: the book is NOT for the casual backyard haunter. It lists some effects, but very few. Its' main focus is the full even portable haunted house, design and construction. Me and my best friend, about 60% of the book we already had planned over the last decade, but the book proves invaluable as a reference. It covers the construction, wiring and fire codes, it shows how to build a heatless cracked fogger system, and has a large reference list to companies in the biz making particular items. The Phillip Morris book purports to the same thing, but is far more primitive in scope and appears to be intended more for the club events rather than the portable haunted houses. The JB Corn book is based on 20 years worth of experience with his Castle Dragon haunted house based in Texas. I had never heard of the book before until Denny recommended it to me, and for its' particular aim, it suceeds quite excellently. But once again, if you are looking into doing a club haunt instead of a stanmd alone, the Phillip Morris book would be more suited towards your needs. Harry Nightmare Park, co-owner [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 06:57:11 1997 From: Jeff Hunsinger Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:50:46 -0600 (CST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Curious, new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com > About that virtual haunt thread, it really reminded me about a haunted house > in Austin, TX with a cool web site. A millionaire in Austin (computers, I > believe) used his mansion, 5 acres, swimming pool, etc. to create a huge, > free haunted house. The person in question here is Richard Garriot, founder of Origin Systems (makers of the Ultima and Wing Commander games, among others). I was never lucky enough to go through his haunted house, but I have been through his house. I was disappointed to find how small the house actually is. I'm not sure how they create the illusion of a huge mansion. Since the house wasn't held this year, many of his usual crew hosted a fund raising "Haunted Trails" haunt in one of the local wilderness preservations. I went to this and felt I got my money's ($15) worth. What really made this haunt shine was NOT the special effects, but the actors and costumes. I also went to the Nightmare Factory's haunted house. They had all the usual effects (strobes, glow paint, pepper's ghost, Jacob's ladder, etc), but none of that really impressed me. The screaming pre-teens going through the place added a lot of amusement, though. Again, actors (and loud noises) are what made the house work. Jeff From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 08:16:11 1997 Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 15:05:03 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Curious, new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Jeff, I received a note from the man that does the home page for Brittania Manor. He says that the man has built a new much larger home and that they are shooting for 1998!! They are either going to have it in the old place or in his new home!! I thought from the pages that the house was huge. If you say it is not that big then they used the art of going back and forth on yourself very well. I like the floorplan layouts they have on the page. It gives you a good idea on how to use space to the best. Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 11:01:33 1997 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 13:43:54 -0500 From: ROGER ALEXANDER To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: new hh URL -Reply Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com What site is this? Did I miss something? :( --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Alexander Phone: 812-854-4748 Naval Surface Warfare Center Fax: 812-854-3508 Bldg 64 Code 111RA Crane, IN 47522 INTERNET: rda413@smtp.nwscc.sea06.navy.mil Supporting the Fleet through Supply! >>> Michael Marcrum 1/4/97 4:48 am >>> Karen, That site is just what I had in mind. Between pictures and drawings you felt like you were going through the haunt yourself!! And the makeup and props were great!! I am still waiting for a reply to the email I sent!! Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 12:42:19 1997 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 14:09:08 -0800 From: The Proctors To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: new hh URL -Reply Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------13BD35E6686D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A website from a haunt, Britannia Manor, held in 1994 in Austin, Texas. Millionaire (owner of Origin) and many volunteers and friends turned his house into haunt, open for only like 4 days, free admission. People camped out for days to get in. The site has lots of photos and detail. It'll take you awhile to see it all though! I'm including it here, let me know if it didn't work. karen p cproctor@flash.net ROGER ALEXANDER wrote: > > What site is this? Did I miss something? :( > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Roger Alexander Phone: 812-854-4748 > Naval Surface Warfare Center Fax: 812-854-3508 > Bldg 64 Code 111RA > Crane, IN 47522 > > INTERNET: rda413@smtp.nwscc.sea06.navy.mil > > Supporting the Fleet through Supply! > > >>> Michael Marcrum 1/4/97 4:48 am >>> > Karen, > That site is just what I had in mind. Between pictures and drawings you felt like you were going > through the haunt yourself!! And the makeup and props were great!! I am still waiting for a reply to the > email I sent!! Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com --------------13BD35E6686D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="bmanor94.html" Britannia Manor 94

Britannia Manor '94 - Descent Into Darkness

News! Britannia Manor '94 is a Cool Site of the Hour!


[Cool Site of the Hour]

Also, please note that there is NO BRITANNIA MANOR '96. The next one will be no sooner than 1998, if ever, due to a change of venue.



What is Britannia Manor? It's a no-holds-barred full-contact haunted house. It's tough to get in, and tougher to get out. Be prepared to swim, crawl, climb, negotiate, solve puzzles, and run like hell. And, of course, be scared in some imaginatively terrifying ways. If you've been here before and just want to check out new additions, go to What's New.

Descent Into Darkness



You've got to have a pretty good reason to enter the Inferno. The premise for the '94 Manor was that the Inferno had intruded onto good Lord British's house and grounds, and the guests have to enter the Inferno to retrieve the magical Star of Palestine and save the Avatar. For the full description, see The Premise.

Where



Britannia Manor is held (usually) every two years at the house and grounds of Origin Systems co-founder Richard Garriott (aka Lord British), in Austin, Texas. It's a big production, using every corner of RG's palatial mansion, including the indoor/outdoor pool and dungeon, as well as most of the 5 acres of surrounding ground.

When



The '94 incarnation of the Manor was held for four days at Halloween. Of course, the construction of the Manor had been going on for several months. Planning started well before that, early in the summer of '94. Cleanup afterwards took only 12 days, thanks to the tireless efforts of many volunteers.

Who



Speaking of volunteers, Britannia Manor '94 was designed, built, staffed, maintained, and destroyed by an all-volunteer force of lunatics. No pay stubs were harmed in the production of this haunted house. It took about 400 lost souls to build the thing, and over 200 warm (?) bodies to pull off a production night, including actors, technicians, firemen, safety crew, fixers of broken things and food preparers.



Admittance into Britannia Manor is traditionally free. A block of tickets was donated to a local theater group, which sold them as a fundraising proposition. The majority were handed out on a first-come, first served basis on performance nights. Of course, the line was a bit long; people camped out for a week in line. That wasn't just a few diehards trying to be first. The entire series of performance nights was full from people in line a full week before the first run night. The impromptu campsites up and down the road bore an uncanny resemblance to Woodstock.

What



Britannia Manor '94 consumed vast quantities of lumber, paint, makeup, and electricity. Hollywood-quality prosthetic makeup was provided for major characters. Over $100,000 of lasers, fog machines, and sophisticated light and sound effects gear was loaned to the production by generous sponsors.

Why



Why would anyone go to this much trouble to scare the wits out of people? Or wait a week in line to be scared for an hour? The guests get an unparalleled personal adventure fueled by the talents and imaginations of hundreds of the most fiendish hams on the planet. The volunteers get to participate in a spectacular production as insiders, with all the pride of saying "I built that", or "I scared some lady so much she wet her pants." As for Richard Garriott, I'll just quote one of the volunteers who said "If you had a gajillion dollars and loved haunted houses, what would you do?"

The Virtual Manor


The Virtual Britannia Manor '94 is set up in four parts.
All sections are as cross-linked as I can manage with the photos I have. For each station on the Guided Tour, I've attempted to link to photos of construction activity in that area, and to the people directly involved with running the area. All photos are linked to large versions of the same image. This is very much a work in progress; look at What's New for changes since your last visit.

There have been 603souls wandering here.


Other Halloween Links

Credits

The premise, and the script for Britannia Manor '94 were masterfully crafted by Brian Martin.
All layout and other text is (c) 1996 "Dammit" Jim Gould.
All photographs are (c) 1994 Richard Garriott except for the photo of "Dammit" Jim, which is (c) 1994 Susan Johns.
Thanks to Aaron Allston for the site maps.
Thanks to all participants in Britannia Manor '94 - Descent Into Darkness for creating such a wonderfully bizarre experience.
A special thank you to Saint Tassie, for publicizing these pages above and beyond the call of duty.

Direct questions and comments to Jim Gould (jgould@io.com)
Visit my home page at http://www.io.com/~jgould/ for more interesting stuff, including the KHFI Raft race.
--------------13BD35E6686D-- From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 17:04:46 1997 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 16:46:24 -0800 From: Bob Andrews To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I just put a computer generated map of my haunt for 1997 on web site. http://www.anaserve.com/~BoBandrews/hall97 It's not hooked up to anything yet. When it is, you'll be able to go directly to whatever display you click on. Please let me know what you think! -- Bob Andrews bandrews@inreach.com http://www.anaserve.com/~BoBandrews From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 17:40:35 1997 Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 00:32:16 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Bob, I tried to get to your site and I received the message that you do not exist!! Am I doing something wrong!! Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 17:50:26 1997 Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 00:42:53 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: MonsterMakers site Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com HI, I tried to get to the monster makers site, but it said inproper URL!! Can anyone give me a clue as to what I am doing wrong?? The Techno dummy!! mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 18:42:43 1997 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 18:27:45 -0800 From: Bob Andrews To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: MonsterMakers site Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Michael Marcrum wrote: > > HI, > I tried to get to the monster makers site, but it said inproper URL!! > Can anyone give me a clue as to what I am doing wrong?? > The Techno dummy!! > mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com Kathy, I'm not the only one who mistypes! It's http://www.monstermakers.com -- Bob Andrews bandrews@inreach.com http://www.anaserve.com/~BoBandrews From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 18:42:47 1997 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 18:37:09 -0800 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Len Canders Subject: Re: MonsterMakers site Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 12:42 AM 1/5/97 -0800, you wrote: >HI, > I tried to get to the monster makers site, but it said inproper URL!! >Can anyone give me a clue as to what I am doing wrong?? >The Techno dummy!! >mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com > this works for me http://www.monstermakers.com/ --- just copied it from my browser's screen while at the page. you can also get there (and other costuming places) from the links on my web pages (see url below). hth. len canders lcanders@ccnet.com "in the fuzz" http://www.ccnet.com/~lcanders/welcome.html concord, ca From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 18:42:49 1997 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 18:26:17 -0800 From: Bob Andrews To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Michael Marcrum wrote: > > Bob, > I tried to get to your site and I received the message that you do not > exist!! Am I doing something wrong!! > Kathy > the new kid on the crypt > mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com I misstyped the url. Sigh. http://www.anaserve.com/~BoBandrews/hall97.htm -- Bob Andrews bandrews@inreach.com http://www.anaserve.com/~BoBandrews From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 18:48:11 1997 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 20:43:43 -0800 From: "Sherri (Ozzy)" To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Bob Andrews wrote: > > I just put a computer generated map of my haunt for 1997 on web site. > http://www.anaserve.com/~BoBandrews/hall97 > It's not hooked up to anything yet. When it is, you'll be able to go > directly to whatever display you click on. > > Please let me know what you think! Oh, no!!!! It says you do not exist!!!!!! Yikes!!!! hee hee -- Sherri(IzZy,oOzY,OzZy)~http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7997/ Frosty Minnesota, USA ~ c-n-s.ozzy@Worldnet.att.net ~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~* "We must believe in luck; how else can we explain the success of those we don't like." - Jean Cocteau ~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~*~^~* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 19:41:41 1997 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 22:53:09 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Brian Henderson Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I have received E-mail from Brian, but when I try to send mail to him it gets returned. So, Brian Henderson, please check your mail address. I am unable to reply to your posts. Sorry for the wasted bandwidth, but this is the only way to contact him:) John ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 20:04:09 1997 From: "Jim Baggett" To: Subject: Re: MonsterMakers site Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 22:43:33 -0500 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com > Kathy, > I'm not the only one who mistypes! > It's http://www.monstermakers.com > -- > Bob Andrews Did I type it in wrong? I do that all the time. But I could have sworn I tested it before I sent it out. Oh well, sorry. I tried.*Hangs head in shame* Charmaine From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 21:21:17 1997 Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:13:26 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Bob, I Kneel to you!! The page is great, you can understand it and follow the insturctions. The pictures are clear and the graphic work is clean and detailed!! Great Job glad I found it!! Now did you make that coffin or buy it!! Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 21:39:18 1997 Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:31:32 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: MonsterMakers site Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I found it!! I like the masks that they carry. And I think I will see about getting that book on making masks. Looks like a user friendly site. Thanks for the lead Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Jan 6 23:08:42 1997 Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:50:08 -0500 From: Jack Bentley To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Michael Marcrum wrote: > > Bob, > I tried to get to your site and I received the message that you do not > exist!! Am I doing something wrong!! > Kathy > the new kid on the crypt > mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com Add .htm to the end of the address. http://www.anaserve.com/~BoBandrews/hall97.htm Jack B. -- DesignMasters, Inc. http://www.dmwc.com Web Creations From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 03:51:15 1997 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 97 06:41:10 EST To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Bill Lewis Subject: Re: Spooky games -Reply Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Before Doom or Quake (or hexen and heretic) there was a game by Origin called Ultima Underworld (I & II) Great sound and music. Very spooky games. Why they never continued on with a part III or IV etc... I'll never know. It was alot of fun, and is still probably very playable today. Bill Lewis NSWC Carderock Division Code 6060 (301) 227-2742 lewisw@oasys.dt.navy.mil From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 07:20:38 1997 Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 10:14:35 +0000 From: Cliff Martin To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: new hh URL Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Wow! Very Cool map! Great job, Bob! http://www.anaserve.com/~BoBandrews/hall97.htm Cliff cliff.martin@saralee.net Bob Andrews wrote: > > I just put a computer generated map of my haunt for 1997 on web site. > http://www.anaserve.com/~BoBandrews/hall97.htm > It's not hooked up to anything yet. When it is, you'll be able to go > directly to whatever display you click on. > > Please let me know what you think! > > -- > Bob Andrews > bandrews@inreach.com > http://www.anaserve.com/~BoBandrews From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 07:37:57 1997 From: Jeff Hunsinger Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 09:31:31 -0600 (CST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Spooky games -Reply Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com > From: Bill Lewis > Subject: Re: Spooky games -Reply > > Before Doom or Quake (or hexen and heretic) there was a game by Origin > called Ultima Underworld (I & II) Great sound and music. Very spooky games. > Why they never continued on with a part III or IV etc... I'll never know. > It was alot of fun, and is still probably very playable today. Ultima III and IV were produced, since I remember having copies (for the C64). I never played them, though, because I hate reading instructions. Jeff From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 09:31:15 1997 Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 09:13:54 -0800 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Tracy Miller Subject: Re: Curious Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 08:47 PM 12/30/96 -0800, you wrote: This exit room always gave everyone a good scare. Many >people after this room were checking each others for stray spiders. > Wow! I consider myself pretty hard to scare, but this may have made me faint! Pure evil genius! Just reading about it sent a shiver up my spine. Thumbs up! Tracy From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 09:50:12 1997 Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 09:26:27 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Curious Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hello, After reading all the new web sites you have all lead me on I have come to a conclusion. The scare is not in a physical form, it is a mental thing. If the victim believes what is happening in their head that is all you need. The mind works much faster than any of the senses singular. I have already changed some of my ideas for this year just on what I have seen in the last few days. I am going to put more work on the guides so that the people have more of the feeling for the place, and less on human actors. If you put it in their minds, they will believe it with very little prompting!! Fun year ahead!! Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 09:50:29 1997 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 97 12:45:10 EST To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Bill Lewis Subject: Re: Spooky games -Reply Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 09:31 AM 1/7/97 -0600, you wrote: >> From: Bill Lewis >> Subject: Re: Spooky games -Reply >> >> Before Doom or Quake (or hexen and heretic) there was a game by Origin >> called Ultima Underworld (I & II) Great sound and music. Very spooky games. >> Why they never continued on with a part III or IV etc... I'll never know. >> It was alot of fun, and is still probably very playable today. > >Ultima III and IV were produced, since I remember having copies (for the C64). >I never played them, though, because I hate reading instructions. > >Jeff The Ultima games (up through VII) were not like the Underworld games. The Ultima Underworld (I and II) were more like Doom and Quake in that you had a first person character view. In the Ultima games you had an overhead view of the main character and his surroundings. Bill Lewis NSWC Carderock Division Code 6060 (301) 227-2742 lewisw@oasys.dt.navy.mil From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 11:12:29 1997 Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 10:57:47 -0800 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Greg Hope Subject: Member List concerns Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Greetings, everyone. One person in the group shared a concern with me about where the information we're all sharing ends up after the member directory is done. I decided to share the response I gave her with the group at large. ======================================================== I give you my word that I will never pass information from our group to anyone outside the group. This directory exists soley for the convenience and interest of our little group of Halloweenophiles. As for distribution, I expect that, when it's done, I'll make it available for download from Don Bertino's page. If he lacks the space and I have a homepage set up by then, I'll carry it myself. Of course, I'll be happy to email after it's done, as well. ======================================================== If you have any qualms about providing info, don't do it. Your comfort level with the group is more important to me than this list. Be aware, though, that if you're mildly active on the Net, basic info like your full name, email address, organization and telephone number probably have already been picked up by an automatic search engine. Not a happy thought, I agree, but, for the most part, harmless. Greg in Vista T (619) 945-4424 F (619) 726-2804 E ghope@mailhost.csusm.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 14:44:12 1997 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:36:27 +0100 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: makeup@earthlink.net (Tad Peters) Subject: Re: "Curious" Thread (link game) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com You know these have all been re-released for mac, ibm, and the like. The Adventure series are out on CD rom... and you know Zork was re-released for the mac and others. Those were the days when someone else paid for the toilet paper. Some day when I am rich and famous and... dead and they open a museum in my name, they will be able to use all the computers that I have owned for that display. From the ti-994a (cassette storage, 16 bytes RAM!!) to my sun 100 (which I haven't gotten yet) >Text takes little >space on a server, and this would be a neat way to "look" around a house on >your own in a non-linear form. (Hey, anyone remember the old Apple games >like this??) > >Oh well, just my thoughts. >********************************* >* Mr.Scary Productions * >* http://www.mrscary.com * >* E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * >* 1-812-824-8935 * >* FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * >********************************* Tad Peters A. Harlequin Costume makeup@earthlink.net 9589 Foothill Blvd Official Home of Montclair Rocky Horror Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730 www.costumemagic.com (909) 948-2950 From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 14:44:37 1997 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:36:37 +0100 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: makeup@earthlink.net (Tad Peters) Subject: Re: Death Studios was : Catalogues Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I have ordered from them for the past five years, often as early as >late June or early July and once as early as May. Each year at least >part of my order has not been filled. if this was your only problem, we order $15-25,000 per store from several costume suppliers, most have not shipped complete in 19 years. No matter when the order was taken no matter who does the ordering. That is part of any business at the wholesale level, but a company this size of death studios should be more esponsive I agree. Actually it pisses me off to high heaven that it is acceptable for a company the size of Rubies, disguise, or others to have business practices that I expect the kind of service that all costumers get, but them there is the breaks. Last years VAPOR WEAR was the ID4 masks. In the catalog, due for shipment on october 1st. we, against our better judgement, allowed a customer to pre-pay for a $200 (approx.) deluxe mask because she wanted to be ensure that she would get the very first one we got. We ordered 10 during the summer. well it is now about october 20th, after numerous calls, I get a call from the supplier, "They are on the dock, will be shipped tomorrow, you will get them in 3 days or so!" Great, I call my customer and inform her. and tell her I will call her as soon as it get here. the next day, this time an early morning (6 am) message: "The info we got from the dock was wrong, we did not recieve them, and we are NOT going to recieve them this year! Maybe after Chicago 97." The next phone call I made was the hardest call I had ever made in my life, and I took a bath on giving this lady enough stuff to try to retain her as a customer. But in way I am glad that my supplier had the willing ness to lose the order for that particular mask, then put out something shotty, or substandard. Which is why (I hope) that they sometimes don't ship complete. (rose colored glasses included). This is such a generally accepted practice that we order stuff we don't want sometime, just so there is something to go on the walls and those are often the things that end up the sale.HTML at the web site. And then sometimes there is just stuff that you know you are not goin to get, and that is the stuff that you get your own team of designers and sewers together and make. Tad Peters A. Harlequin Costume makeup@earthlink.net 9589 Foothill Blvd Official Home of Montclair Rocky Horror Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730 www.costumemagic.com (909) 948-2950 From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 15:05:18 1997 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:36:11 +0100 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: makeup@earthlink.net (Tad Peters) Subject: Re: But I do play one on TV... Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >Denny sez: > >>As for other dealers, THERE ARE ONLY FIVE- >> >>1. Nathan at Theatre Effects- >>2. John at Mr. Scary- >>3. Tad at Harlequin Costume- >>4. Brian Oberquell at The Wizard's Den- >>5. and me at Terror By Design- Boy this is some valuable text to save. Thanks for asking: the new web page address is http://www.costumemagic.com Many new Ren Pictures, and coming soon, the MAGIC, speaking of magic you (Denny) are the most reputable and pleasure to deal with, and so is Nathan, John & Brian. Tad Peters A. Harlequin Costume makeup@earthlink.net 9589 Foothill Blvd Official Home of Montclair Rocky Horror Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730 www.costumemagic.com (909) 948-2950 From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 15:17:56 1997 Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 18:10:55 -0500 From: Allan Clifford To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Mars Attack?? Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Has anyone seen the Mars Attack movie yet? I have designed a UFO scene for my 97 production but I want to use another type of alien besides the Roswell alien (since everyone and their brother seemed to be doing a Area 51/Roswell scene in the past few years). Don't get me wrong I think the UFO theme is cool....but the scenes I witnessed at other haunts needed some help! I'm sorry but a bunch of Roswell aliens (sleeping or dead) in chambers don't really scare me. At most they will get a "That's cool" from the audience and I would like to have it all from my customers, (that's cool and it scared me too!) Anyone else have any thoughts about this they would like to share? ***You can check out the Mars Attack movie web site at http://www.marsattack.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 15:49:14 1997 Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 18:37:54 -0500 From: Allan Clifford To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Running the business Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com > Harry > Nightmare Park, co-owner Hey Harry! Tell me about your Nightmare Park. I have not heard of this one! Allan From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 16:06:32 1997 Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 15:39:13 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Mars Attack?? Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Mars Attack!! Anyone that stays up late at night to watch all the old B movies has to go see it!! The camp is wonderful...all the stars. As for the aliens I would say they are scarier than the usual!! And I love the way they move and all. Just add a ray gun to your alien and a evil grin and it will work!! As for movies did anyone see the horror movie about vampires that was out with George Clooney in it??? I was wondering because we are looking to see a new video. Any comments!! Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Jan 7 16:31:06 1997 Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 19:21:19 -0500