>Nope. Krylon removed it from the market. I still have a little out in the >garage (still hidden from the move a year ago), and will need to check for >the exact chemical makeup, but the main reason it was yanked is that it >gave off cyanide gas... No, please see my other post. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 14 12:23:48 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:07:54 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Make-up Effects Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 01:15 PM 2/14/97 -0500, you wrote: >It is still out there and is made by Kryolan. The only reason I have not >used the stuff is because it is not safe to use and you have to go through >hades to dispose of the containers the parts come in. It produces >Iso-Cyanate... (balance deleted for brevity) TDI (Toluene Diisocyanate), often referred to as "isocyanate", is a prepolymer that along with other prepolymers primarily outgas carbon dioxide, some methane and very, very small amounts of cyanide when mixed with water. You'd suffocate from the CO2 before the cyanide had any effect. Isocyanate is not a byproduct of polymerization. "Uncured" isocyanates can be left behind in a poorly mixed resin. Isocyanate was removed from the non-industrial market because of its' toxicity and rather high vapor density, it loves looking for other hydrocarbons whether it's another prepolymer or your lungs and liver. High performance resins can still be had that contain isocyanate. Up until a few years ago it was a very common ingredient in urethanes, it has now generally been replaced by diisocyanate or MDI (Methylenediphenyl Diisocyanate) and MDDI (Modified Diphenylmethane Diisocyanate). ...and yes, this is another reason why women won't talk to me at cocktail parties. I'd take my chances with TDI or MDI any day of the week before trusting the tobacco industry. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 14 13:26:26 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:38:07 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Another "Holiday" Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com With all the talk about "good stuff", I almost forgot to say:.. Happy Valentines Day, from Mr.Scary.... How do I love thee, let me "count" the ways: I love your cold blue lips, and the way the blood runs down your cheek, I love your bony fingers, you make Halloween every day of the week. I love your webby house, and your coffin in the crypt, I knew that love had found me, 'twas into my heart that you crept. John %) ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 14 13:51:41 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 97 13:04:12 PST From: oliver@nemesis.saic.com (Thomas W Oliver) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Make-up Effects Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com > TDI (Toluene Diisocyanate), often referred to as "isocyanate", is a > prepolymer that along with other prepolymers primarily outgas carbon > dioxide, some methane and very, very small amounts of cyanide when mixed > with water... >...isocyanate or MDI (Methylenediphenyl Diisocyanate) and > MDDI (Modified Diphenylmethane Diisocyanate). Hmm... that's what I get for trusting the store owner's explaination 'straight from the company' as to why he didn't carry it anymore, when I tried to buy some more. B-) > ...and yes, this is another reason why women won't talk to me at cocktail > parties. The women at my parties, for the most part, would talk with you (they've gotten use to it from several sources). However, for the most part, they're married. B-) > > I'd take my chances with TDI or MDI any day of the week before trusting the > tobacco industry. > Hey, I will allow toxic fumes in my house, but NO ONE smokes in my house. THomas From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 14 15:24:33 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:02:03 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Make-up Effects/banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 01:04 PM 2/14/97 PST, you wrote: >>...isocyanate or MDI (Methylenediphenyl Diisocyanate) and >> MDDI (Modified Diphenylmethane Diisocyanate). > >Hmm... that's what I get for trusting the store owner's explaination 'straight >from the company' as to why he didn't carry it anymore, when I tried to buy >some more. B-) >The women at my parties, for the most part, would talk with you (they've gotten >use to it from several sources). However, for the most part, they're married. >B-) Oops, I'm married too. That's one more reason, besides being ugly and boring. :) >> I'd take my chances with TDI or MDI any day of the week before trusting the >> tobacco industry. >Hey, I will allow toxic fumes in my house, but NO ONE smokes in my house. Couldn't agree more. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 14 15:24:34 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:02:05 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Another "Holiday" Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 04:38 PM 2/14/97 -0500, John wrote: >How do I love thee, let me "count" the ways: > >I love your cold blue lips, >and the way the blood runs down your cheek, >I love your bony fingers, >you make Halloween every day of the week. >I love your webby house, >and your coffin in the crypt, >I knew that love had found me, >'twas into my heart that you crept. John, You're a good friend so I feel the need to say- yer starting to worry me. ;) Denny From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 14 15:55:16 1997 From: The Youngs To: "halloween-l@netcom.com" , "'John P. Jeffries'" Subject: RE: Another "Holiday" Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:53:09 -0500 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com John, have you ever consider therapy ;-) Jacqui jyoung@idirect.com ---------- From: John P. Jeffries[SMTP:mrscary@kiva.net] Sent: Friday, February 14, 1997 4:38 PM To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Another "Holiday" With all the talk about "good stuff", I almost forgot to say:.. Happy Valentines Day, from Mr.Scary.... How do I love thee, let me "count" the ways: I love your cold blue lips, and the way the blood runs down your cheek, I love your bony fingers, you make Halloween every day of the week. I love your webby house, and your coffin in the crypt, I knew that love had found me, 'twas into my heart that you crept. John %) ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 14 17:42:32 1997 From: Scott Axworthy Subject: Re: Make-up Effects/banter To: halloween-l@netcom.com Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:39:23 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Denny: milwiron@btprod.com writes: > ...much deleted... > > Oops, I'm married too. That's one more reason, besides being ugly and boring. :) Hey, no one ever mentioned boring. :-) -Scott -- Scott Axworthy Phone: 206-649-7668 Cascade Design Automation Fax: 206-649-7600 scott@cdac.com http://www.cdac.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 14 18:31:01 1997 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:25:13 -0800 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Greg Hope Subject: member list follow up [mostly banter] Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi, all. By now, I'm hoping that everyone who requested a list has checked her/his mail, found the file and been satisfied. If you haven't yet requested one and wish to do so, please use my address and do not mail to the list. Thanks to everyone for your patience. If anyone in the group can direct me to a shareware mapping program, I'd be happy to do the work (though it might not happen overnight). Short of that, I'll let you know when I have a map put together. Has anyone in California heard what's up with the Knotts trip? I think Jeanni Skip was calling for participants, but I lost track of where it stands. Sandy eggin's are you out there? I'd really appreciate it if someone could take the lead on setting up the next meeting. Next, does anyone have experience with the Halloween Productions Inc. mobile haunts? I recently received their catalog and they're pretty careful about not showing clearly what you get for your $35,000. I'm not quite ready to take out a second mortgage, but I'm still curious. Greg in Vista T (619) 945-4424 F (619) 726-2804 E ghope@mailhost.csusm.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 14 22:21:17 1997 Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:37:29 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Re: Another "Holiday"-banter-reply Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com (poem snipped) > >John, > You're a good friend so I feel the need to say- yer starting to worry me. ;) >Denny > Strange, that's what Penny says ;) "SCARY" Ain't it!? MUAAhahahahaaaaaaaaaaa..... John ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 15 01:53:45 1997 From: Catlows@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 04:48:36 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Make-up Effects Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Dear John, My husband used a product, Crayola Model Magic, that is extremely light weight, easy to work with and air dries. You can find it in craft stores. My husband used it for a "Predator" headpiece. After forming it and drying, he was able to paint it with acrylic paints. Large pieces or extensions would need a wire framework of sorts inserted while the foam is still wet for support. And the cost is not cheap. I don't think it would work for skin type applications, but for horns etc it seemed to work great. Suzanne (a lurker, but enjoyer) ps, my husband said to let you know that when it dries it has a soft fleshy feel, which seems that this group would like that. From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 15 03:10:22 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 04:56:05 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Make-up Effects/banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 05:39 PM 2/14/97 -0800, you wrote: >Denny: > >milwiron@btprod.com writes: >> >...much deleted... >> >> Oops, I'm married too. That's one more reason, besides being ugly and boring. :) > >Hey, no one ever mentioned boring. :-) > >-Scott Hey Scotty, My wife did. ;) Denny From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 15 09:30:05 1997 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: bdosfx@wimsey.com (Brian D. Oberquell) Subject: Re: Another "Holiday" - BANTER Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:24:25 -0800 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reminds me of the Valentine's Day card I gave my wife last year: Blood is red, Corpses are blue, Revenge is sweet, And I'm one sick puppy. (And to think I found it at Hallmark...) Brian ______________________________________________________________________________ Brian D. Oberquell The Wizard's Den SPFX Studio 210 Cornell Way Port Moody, B.C. CANADA V3H 3W2 Phone (604) 931-6298 Pager (604) 895-3721 Website: http://www.wp.com/FXWizard/ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Feb 16 16:01:58 1997 From: twinb@tiac.net Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 18:54:57 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Anyone know about vintage stuff? Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi! I'm new to the list and am looking for vintage Halloween collectibles. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks! Judith Judith Katz-Schwartz Twin Brooks Antiques and Collectibles http://www.tiac.net/users/twinb e-mail: twinb@tiac.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Feb 16 17:01:59 1997 From: The Youngs To: "halloween-l@netcom.com" , "'twinb@tiac.net'" Subject: RE: Anyone know about vintage stuff? Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 19:43:45 -0500 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Look up antiques on the net, there is a site that I came across a while back that had antiques for sale, they two or three Halloween items, I think from the fifties, so I guess it depends on what vintage you're looking for. :) jacqui ---------- P.S. Welcome to the list From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Feb 16 19:05:21 1997 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:59:41 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: hauntedattr@pelican.net (Oliver Holler) Subject: Sharing scaring! Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi, I'm new on the list. (I tried a few times unsuccessfully to get on, and then I figured out that it's halloween-' l' rather than '1'. -With me, Halloween is number '1' :-) I'd like to say that Doug Ferguson's Phantasmechanics is wonderful! I'm a publisher of 'Haunted Attraction' , a quarterly magazine for the dark amusement industry. (Issues spotlight particular attractions, feature articles on safety, industry standards, laws, etc. , reader mail, resources for spooky stuff, designs, etc.) The Spring issue features one of Doug's great mechanical designs. (With his generous permission, of course.) If there is anyone out there who likes haunted houses, and this sort of thing, I'd be happy to send you a free copy. Just send me your name, mailing address, and phone number, and I'll drop the next issue off to you in the mail! ;-) (By the way, just in case you're wondering, a regular subscription is only $16 for a year.) ($32 elsewhere, US funds only) Haunted Attraction PO Box 451 North Myrtle Beach, SC USA 29597 (Be sure to include YOUR name, phone number and mailing address with ZIP code.) Thanks for letting me share my labor of love with you! Sincerely, Oliver Holler Managing Editor, Haunted Attraction ps: We have a humble web site if you'd like to visit! http://www.pelican.net/hauntedmagazine Drop us a line and tell us what you think! From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 17 04:21:59 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 06:17:03 -0600 From: DJ To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Anyone know about vintage stuff? Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Judith wrote: > I'm new to the list and am looking for vintage Halloween collectibles. Can > anyone point me in the right direction? Hi, Judith! Welcome to the list. Boy, I know I've been spending too much time on the 'net when I keep bumping into people I "know" in cyberspace. Let's see... I think we first crossed paths on the jewelry list. And I know I've purchased things from TwinBrooks in the past. Plus (whisper...) I do believe we have bid against each other for the same items on Ebay. Yipes! Anyhoo, it's great to have you on halloween-l! Discussing vintage halloween items hasn't really been a big part of what we do, but I'd be really interested in the topic, too. If anybody can add to the discussion please do. In the meantime, Judith, maybe you'd be interested in building a mechanical ghost or lovingly creating a decorative rotting corpse for your halloween display? Now *that's* the sort of help you can get here easily! Again, Judith, welcome to the list. I hope we can get a good thread going on halloween collectibles! Regards, DJ, who's just an old-fashioned ghoul at heart (dejay@midwest.net) From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 17 04:47:54 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 06:30:17 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Anyone know about vintage stuff? Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 06:54 PM 2/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >Hi! >I'm new to the list and am looking for vintage Halloween collectibles. Can >anyone point me in the right direction? > >Thanks! >Judith Hi Judith, Welcome to the list. There was a Halloween collectibles page at- . You may have been aware of it already, I haven't visited the site in a few months and don't know if it is still there, AOL web sites have a habit of disappearing rather quickly. Also, if you're anywhere near the midwest, there is a huge flea market in St. Charles, Il. at the Kane County fairgrounds that always has a lot of vintage Halloween stuff showing up at the September and October shows. Prices are usually steep but bargains can be found. I've collected old mouse traps and Zeppelin items for years and can always find something there. It runs the first Sunday of the month and the preceding Saturday afternoon. It's the largest show in the midwest and draws dealers from as far away as Texas and New York. It'll take a full day to walk through. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares 630-830-9561 7:30 am. to 5:30 pm. CST fax 630-830-9577 24 hours From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 17 06:17:40 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 07:46:07 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Workshops Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hey All, Long time list member Stu McIntire has been bogged down at work and wanted me to pass along this information- Kinetic Artistry in Takoma Park, Maryland is offering seminars on Wigs, Paramedical & Corrective Makeup and Special FX casting. The first two seminars cost $45.00 per person and the last is $100.00 per person. Fees cover all supplies. Dates are Feb. 22 for Wigs, Feb. 26 for Corrective Makeup and March 1 for Special FX casting. For additional info (this is all I know) call Kinetic Artistry at 301-270-6666. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 17 07:47:43 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 07:28:07 -0800 From: Spook To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Chicago Trade Show Update Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Just a quick update on those of us who are planning to attend the Chicago Trade Show, and who will be getting together to swap lies and drinks... John Jeffries (Mr. Scary Productions) Allan (Nightmare Forest) Mark Smith (Scarecrow) John Dolan Keith Long (Maybe) Roger Alexander (Maybe) Nathan Kahn (Theatre Effects) We'll be making final arrangements in early March. If you are going to attend the Trade Show, and would like to join in the fun, please drop me an e-mail, and I'll put you on the list. Also... I promised to get a contact number for Knott's Knot So Scary Farm. Unfortunately, my actor who worked there has graduated from Cow-Poly and did not leave a forwarding number or address. Sorry, guys and girls. Mark Smith Children of The Night Theatrical Group From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 17 07:59:07 1997 From: twinb@tiac.net Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:51:48 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Thought you might enjoy this.... Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Dear List, Someone forwarded this to me this morning, and I thought you might find it amusing. Judith >======================================== > The story behind this is... There's this nutball who digs > things out of his back yard and sends the stuff he finds to the > Smithsonian Institute, labeling them with scientific names, >insisting > that they are actual archeological finds. The really weird thing >about > these letters is that this guy really exists and does this in >his > spare time! > > Anyway... here's a letter from the Smithsonian Institute to this >man > who sent the Institute one of his 'major finds'. > > ==================================================== > > Paleoanthropology Division > Smithsonian Institute > 207 Pennsylvania Avenue > Washington, DC 20078 > > Dear Sir: > > Thank you for your latest submission to the Institute, >labeled > "211-D, layer seven, next to the clothesline post. Hominid skull. >" We > have given this specimen a careful and detailed examination, >and > regret to inform you that we disagree with your theory that it > represents "conclusive proof of the presence of Early Man in > Charleston County two million years ago." Rather, it appears >that > what you have found is the head of a Barbie doll, of the variety >one > of our staff, who has small children, believes to be the >"Malibu > Barbie". It is evident that you have given a great deal of >thought > to the analysis of this specimen, and you may be quite certain >that > those of us who are familiar with your prior work in the field >were > loathe to come to contradiction with your findings. > > However, we do feel that there are a number of physical >attributes > of the specimen which might have tipped you off to it's modern >origin: > > 1. The material is molded plastic. Ancient hominid remains >are > typically fossilized bone. > > 2. The cranial capacity of the specimen is approximately 9 >cubic > centimeters, well below the threshold of even the earliest >identified > proto-hominids. > > 3. The dentition pattern evident on the "skull" is more >consistent > with the common domesticated dog than it is with the "ravenous > man-eating Pliocene clams" you speculate roamed the wetlands >during > that time. This latter finding is certainly one of the most >intriguing > hypotheses you have submitted in your history with this >institution, > but the evidence seems to weigh rather heavily against it. >Without > going into too much detail, let us say that: > > A. The specimen looks like the head of a Barbie doll that a >dog > has chewed on. > > B. Clams don't have teeth. > > It is with feelings tinged with melancholy that we must deny >your > request to have the specimen carbon dated. This is partially due >to > the heavy load our lab must bear in its normal operation, and >partly > due to carbon dating's notorious inaccuracy in fossils of >recent > geologic record. To the best of our knowledge, no Barbie dolls >were > produced prior to 1956 AD, and carbon dating is likely to >produce > wildly inaccurate results. > > Sadly, we must also deny your request that we approach the > National Science Foundation's Phylogeny Department with the >concept of > assigning your specimen the scientific name Australopithecus > spiff-arino." > > Speaking personally, I, for one, fought tenaciously for the > acceptance of your proposed taxonomy, but was ultimately voted >down > because the species name you selected was hyphenated, and >didn't > really sound like it might be Latin. > > However, we gladly accept your generous donation of this > fascinating specimen to the museum. While it is undoubtedly not >a > hominid fossil, it is, nonetheless, yet another riveting example >of > the great body of work you seem to accumulate here so >effortlessly. > You should know that our Director has reserved a special shelf >in his > own office for the display of the specimens you have previously > submitted to the Institution, and the entire staff speculates >daily on > what you will happen upon next in your digs at the site you >have > discovered in your back yard. > > We eagerly anticipate your trip to our nation's capital that >you > proposed in your last letter, and several of us are pressing >the > Director to pay for it. > > We are particularly interested in hearing you expand on your > theories surrounding the "trans-positating fillifitation of >ferrous > ions in a structural matrix" that makes the excellent juvenile > Tyrannosaurus rex femur you recently discovered take on the >deceptive > appearance of a rusty 9-mm Sears Craftsman automotive crescent >wrench. > > Yours in Science, > > Harvey Rowe > Curator, Antiquities > >____ >Subscribe to my free, email newsletter on antiques & collecting: >http://pages.prodigy.com/antique/index.htm > >Great news! You can get Prodigy Internet AND Prodigy Classic BOTH for >only $19.95 per month -- untimed, unlimited! > Judith Katz-Schwartz Twin Brooks Antiques and Collectibles http://www.tiac.net/users/twinb e-mail: twinb@tiac.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 17 09:55:20 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 12:43:18 -0500 From: Jules Egyud To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Corpses Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Sparks, Doug wrote: > > I haven't received any mail in the last couple of days, so I thought I > would primer discussions with a question here. > > Has anyone ordered the book on how to build your own corpses (from > Distefano Productions) and actually produced some results with it? > > I am in need of a corpse for this year's display and was wondering > whether or not the guide is a worthwhile investment. Is there anyone > who can give us a review of the book? I don't want to buy the text > and find out it costs another $300 in materials to produce a single > corpse. > > Any help would be appreciated > > Doug Sparks > dsparks@ligand.com Doug, I apologize for the late response, but I haven't been checking my mail as often as usual. I finally get a chance to contribute to this list, and I end being a week late! I purchased this book from Distefano Productions last year and built 2 corpses for this past Halloween. The corpses came out pretty good, but I did encounter some difficulties. Here are my comments: The book is not bound, rather it is about 30 pages of loose paper held in a plastic cover with a couple of pages of color photographs. The directions are OK but lack some much needed diagrams (although there is no lack of typos). I felt that some parts of the corpse received too much attention, and other parts received too little. Building the corpse required lots of time, lots of shopping, and a moderate amount of money (not $300, but $100-$200 depending on what material you already have around). Considering my level of artistic talent, I think the corpse came out good, but with the amount of work I put in I expected better results. Because the directions (I felt) were lacking, some of the dimensions of the body caused the final result to be somewhat out of proportion. One thing I must say is that Mr. Distefano was very helpful and responsive when I emailed questions during the project. Overall: for $20 the book is OK, but not great. To some it may be worth the money just to get a few new ideas (at least for the face and head, which turned out to be the most impressive part of the project). If I were to build more corpses this year, I would try the kit from Denny. Hope this wasn't too late, Jules julese@recom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 17 09:58:33 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:38:04 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Chicago Trade Show Update Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 07:28 AM 2/17/97 -0800, you wrote: >Just a quick update on those of us who are planning to attend the Chicago Trade >Show... My nights of the show are booked (with business schmoozing) but still hope to meet all you folks there. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 17 10:12:51 1997 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:39:19 -0800 From: jrbaas To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Sharing scaring! Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Oliver Holler wrote: > > Hi, > I'm new on the list. (I tried a few times unsuccessfully to get on, and > then I figured out that it's halloween-' l' rather than '1'. > -With me, Halloween is number '1' :-) Don't feel so bad. This is exactly the "long stupid story" that kept us from getting on the listserv for months too!!! > I'd like to say that Doug Ferguson's Phantasmechanics is wonderful! Must agree!!!! > > If there is anyone out there who likes haunted houses, and this sort of > thing, I'd be happy to send you a free copy. Just send me your name, > mailing address, and phone number, and I'll drop the next issue off to you > in the mail! ;-) > Thanks for the kind offer!! And welcome to the list!!!! We are always glad to have people who love Halloween like ourselves. After all, there is "always room for one more" Sincerely, Julie and Dwayne The cryptkeepin' 2 (we are also "fresh meat", and loving it) From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 17 21:20:13 1997 From: DWFWW@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 23:11:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Sharing scaring! To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Oliver, Gosh...thanks for the unsolicited praise! Welcome to the list! I really need to catch up - I owe the list another installment of the how-to, and due to other obligations (and a cold) I have been silent for a couple of weeks. I also promised the plans for 'Hotel Lugosi', which will show up at the phanmech site, as there will be a lot of illustrations to download. Gimme a week or so, and they'll be in place. ;-) -Doug F. *********************************************************************** * Safety, Courtesy, Show and Efficiency: * Doug Ferguson * * The Keys To The Kingdom * dwfww@jazz.ucc.uno.edu * * Phantasmechanics website - http://members.aol.com/phanmech/ * * Personal website - http://members.aol.com/orniske/ * *********************************************************************** From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 04:30:37 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:21:03 -0500 From: ROGER ALEXANDER To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Chicago Trade Show Update -Reply Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com *sigh* Sadly, I will not be able to make it. Funding, travel conflicts with work, and other various goblins and spooks will prevent me from attending. Will await a *full* report from those attending. And hopefully somebody will pick me up some ghoulish goodies while there! ;) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Alexander Phone: 812-854-4748 Naval Surface Warfare Center Fax: 812-854-3508 Bldg 64 Code 111RA Crane, IN 47522 INTERNET: rda413@smtp.nwscc.sea06.navy.mil Supporting the Fleet through Supply! From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 09:03:14 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 12:01:45 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Re: Chicago Trade Show Update Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 11:38 AM 2/17/97 -0600, you wrote: >At 07:28 AM 2/17/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Just a quick update on those of us who are planning to attend the Chicago >Trade >Show... > >My nights of the show are booked (with business schmoozing) but still hope >to meet all you folks there. >Denny > I will agree with Denny, I will be there 2-4 nights, and will be "schmoozing" most of the day...(Have to press these animitronic bodies, got a TIG I have to pay for:) I'll be at the RAMADA, no room number was given to me yet. John ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 12:05:22 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:50:21 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: hauntedattr@pelican.net (Oliver Holler) Subject: Re: Sharing scaring! Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Doug, Thanks for the thanks! (Is it just me, or do internet people just seem to be plain nice?) :-) Because of space limitations, I had to focus the story on just the mechanism. (The whole shootin' match was well over 10 pages alone!) Plus, you cover so many different elements from building the ghost, to LED electronics, etc. I thought it might be best to focus on one aspect for now. (There is always next issue. . .) Your detail is very comprehensive, and you have good writing skills. Its a joy to read and it makes it easy to edit. (only when necessary.) I'd like you to consider having a regular column in the magazine. We could design a header with you, and I'm sure it would become a favorite. We'd just need to make sure there was enough material to commit to a long-running column. (Even though we are only talking 4 times a year!) Grim and Grinning, Oliver Holler ps: What does this mean? >* Safety, Courtesy, Show and Efficiency: >* The Keys To The Kingdom From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 12:06:35 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:49:19 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: hauntedattr@pelican.net (Oliver Holler) Subject: Re: Corpses Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >Sparks, Doug wrote: >> Has anyone ordered the book on how to build your own corpses (from >> Distefano Productions) and actually produced some results with it? >> >> I am in need of a corpse for this year's display and was wondering >> whether or not the guide is a worthwhile investment. Is there anyone >> who can give us a review of the book? I don't want to buy the text >> and find out it costs another $300 in materials to produce a single >> corpse. >> >> Any help would be appreciated >> >> Doug Sparks >> dsparks@ligand.com Doug, Michael Burnett Productions produces excellent corpse kits. Yes, he advertises regularly in Haunted Attraction magazine, (that's how I know about him), but I have bought 3 myself and am very pleased with the results! (The kits require trimming, assembling and painting, but the figures are sculpted beautifully, and give you a huge jump-start, as opposed to starting from 'scratch'! They come in three styles, male, female, and skeleton. They're the least expensive full size prop of this kind that I know of. Get in touch for details. Here's the address, and tell him Haunted Attraction magazine sent ya. (He really has been a good supporter of the magazine!) Michael Burnett Productions, Inc. P.O. Box 16627 N. Hollywood, CA 91605 (818)768-6103 fax: (818)-768-6136 As for the Distefano book, I haven't seen it, but for only $20, I would consider buying it for my personal library regardless. Hope this helps, Oliver Holler Haunted Attraction Magazine From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 12:06:47 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 14:49:25 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: hauntedattr@pelican.net (Oliver Holler) Subject: Re: Sharing scaring! Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Julie and Dwayne, Thanks for the kind reply. The longer I'm on the web, the more I think people are just plain 'nicer' out here. If you'd like that free issue, be sure to send along a (snail-mail!) mailing address. Grim and Grinning, Oliver Holler Haunted Attraction Magazine From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 13:32:48 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:25:26 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Fiber Optic Subject: Halloween-L!! I've got an idea thats gonna kill me! Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hey, Well as you guys know, I only speak when I have a marvolous idea and many questions. Well next halloween party I'm accually building a ballroom outside. Its gonna be pretty big and everything and its kind wierd in shape: Some ansi for ya! /``````````````````\ { } \_____________/ Kinda like that, but In the roof, I wanna have a large window like opening to show passing clouds. Now the problem is the clouds, I am trying to find a way to create realistic, LOW COST, moving (panning), clouds. I was thinking on 3 ways: 1:Cheap: Use 3 leko spotlights, fitted with 3 diffrent gobos of clouds and 2 gels of dark purple color, and 1 gell of DEEP blue. Using 3 motorized mirrors, project the clouds onto a dark colored screen type material. I was gonna use this one, but then I thought of a little more expensive approach. 2:Kinda Cheap: Build a plexy box container the sixe of the opening x3 inches.. ex: (another ansi!!) TOP VIEW |````````````| | | ````````````` SIDE VIEW ~~~~~~~~~ |0 0 0| ````````````` The "0"s would be outlets for small abouts of fog (from a fog machine). Then I would simply light the fog from the sides (or top, depending on what looks best) with colored pin spots. Mabe?? Or a 3rd approach, most expensive: 3:Mo` Money: On a white screen, project (using a LCD projector and my computer) dark colored clouds, scrolling by. This is the easiest approach, but it is also the most expensive, I would have to rent 1 mabe 2 LCD projectors (BIG BUCKS! these are the same things that made the busts sing "Grim Grinning Ghosts" in WDW Haunted Mansion) and hook them up to my computer. The clouds arnt a problem here. So what do ya think?? Thanx Alot, Kel Millionie-16 "Just a Kid who loves Halloween!" From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 16:06:41 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:00:41 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: hauntedattr@pelican.net (Oliver Holler) Subject: Re: Halloween-L!! I've got an idea thats gonna kill me! Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Kel Millionie wrote: In the roof, I wanna have a large window like opening >to show passing clouds. Now the problem is the clouds, I am trying to find >a way to create realistic, LOW COST, moving (panning), clouds. Here's my two bits. . . I did a theatre show called 'No Time For Seargents' with an airplane scene. Clouds passed across the cyclorama upstage througout the scene, producing the illusion of a moving plane. This is how the cloud machine was built: A plywood box, about 2' square was constructed, with the front face open. On either side of the front face, two paint rollers were mounted, one connected to the shaft of a variable speed motor. Stretched across the front, and taken up onto the rollers was plastic, blacked out everywhere but where clouds were wanted. Inside the box, a bare 750 watt ellipsoidal (leko) lamp was placed. It was a thing of simplistic beauty and theatre magic at its best. The cyc had a sunset wash of purples and magentas, and the clouds were projected onto this. When the plane accelerated, you could speed up the clouds via the speed control on the motor! Don't forget some stars if it is a sunset scene! (Fiber optics, or simply Christmas tree lights strategically arranged.) Maybe that was 2 and 1/2 bits, but hey- I'm new to the group. :-) Grim and Grinning, Oliver Holler Haunted Attraction Magazine From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 18:05:30 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:01:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Chicago Trade Show Update To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com GRRRRRRRRrr!!!!!!!!!!!If only this ghoul behind the curtain could raise the funds to go to such a trade show! Bring it to la! :( (welp, several more years.... :) Harry in a conked mood... [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 18:13:49 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:03:06 -0700 Subject: Re: Sharing scaring! To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Ms. Holler, due to the emailer I use, I cannot reply to your Email address, as it does not show up. Could you please give the information about the Haunted Attraction magazine, and how to subsvcribe? I would be very interested. Thank you. Harry htraver@dreamsys.com [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 19:05:07 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:58:28 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: mailserver@seacanoe.com Subject: SeaCanoe announces full Vietnam Programme Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com This is an announcement from SeaCanoe International. We are sending this to you because you are either a past customer, have made an enquiry about SeaCanoe in the past or we have had email correspondence with you recently. If you want to get off this list - please let us know, we are sorry to bother you. Pacific Asia Travel Association (PATA) GOLD Award 1996 Environmental Award, Ecotourism Program British Airways "Tourism For Tomorrow" Awards Pacific Region Winner 1995 Green Globe Achievement Awards - Commendation 1996 World Travel and Tourism Council (WTTC) "SeaCanoe is a great new concept in adventure travel - an ideal Ecotourism model with exciting and innovative new economics." Dr. John Hemming, director, Royal Geographical Society, London, England Sea Canoe Offers Full Vietnam Season SeaCanoe International announces full "Home Base" service for its 1997 Vietnam schedule in Halong Bay and inland Chinese border regions. The kayakers first explored Halong Bay in1992 and added a remote river and lake expedition in 1995, but this is the first season SeaCanoe offers full-time on-site service in Vietnam. SeaCanoe founder John "Caveman" Gray will personally lead the season opening expedition from March 28 - April 10 in SeaCanoe’s own ultra-tough Sotar-built "Sea Explorer" Acrylic inflatables, specially designed for sea caves and air travel. The safe and stable Sea Explorers allow guests to take photos and study nature from any angle, and paddle their own kayaks inside the caves. The versatile Sea Explorers then fold up for transport to an inland limestone lake region including a river that passes through a giant, colorful limestone cave. "We aren’t naming the inland location, because it is so remote that the villagers still speak Thai," says Soonthorn "Mut" Sagulsan, SeaCanoe’s managing director. "We want to help the locals organize their own village-owned programs before foreign ‘Ecotourism’ exploits them and destroys the area." All fourteen, six and four day overnight trips depart Hanoi or Halong City on Sundays, allowing week-ends for air travel. SeaCanoe only credits actual expedition days instead of including long haul air travel days, a practice they consider a dishonest marketing gimmick. Long Haul options include two itineraries from Hanoi - a Halong sea kayaking expedition (US$2,250); and an itinerary including Halong and the river/lake expedition (US$2,500). Six-day Sunday-Friday "Turnarounds" (US$975)are for busy professionals. The four-day trip (US$700) fits into multi-activity Vietnam itineraries. Day trips (US$100) are offered pending availability. All trips can be booked directly with SeaCanoe, through travel agents, Inserimex Travel in Hanoi or Quan Minh Travel in Halong City. The triple-award winning SeaCanoe developed limestone tidal sea caving. South-East Asia’s original sea kayaking company, SeaCanoe ran their first Halong trip in May, 1992, and has extensively surveyed the Bay’s complex coastlines, caves, lagoons and tidal currents. One cave on the SeaCanoe itinerary is 3K (two miles) long. Unlike Thailand, many of Halong’s caves are large enough to be self-paddled. However, spring tides can create extreme currents in many of the best caves, so paddling with an experienced Tidal Sea Cave guide is essential. With three major travel awards in 1996, SeaCanoe is internationally renowned for their true Community-based Ecotourism programs and top quality sea kayaking trips highlighting Asia’s limestone tidal sea caves and inland lagoons, natural history and on-the-water cultures. The Halong format is similar to SeaCanoe’s triple award-winning South Thailand trips, with a support boat reducing crossings and maximizing quality paddling time in and around the complex limestone coastlines. "We actually get in more quality paddling time by using an escort boat, so it doesn’t make much sense to travel so far to just paddle between the islands," explains the Caveman. "Why waste time on crossings and miss never-ending rock gardens, over-hangs, boat families, caves, lagoons and coral reefs." The Halong crew is led by Operations Manager Sonthaya "Son" Vichitnavee, a six-year SeaCanoe partner who was recently featured on Discovery Channel’s "Go For It". (Local staff earn free SeaCanoe shares for excellent work.) Son, another Thai lead guide and a Western Manager are personally trained by SeaCanoe founder John "Caveman" Gray, who lead the original kayak surveys of Halong’s complex islands and numerous caves. Two week trips: Halong Bay Sea Kayaking US$2,250 Halong & Inland Rivers/Lakes US$2,500 Start Sunday airport pick-up / Finish Saturday airport departure Six day trips: Halong Bay Sea Kayaking US$975 Start Sunday - Halong pier or depart Hanoi hotel / Finish Friday evening at Halong pier Four Day trips: Halong Bay Sea Kayaking US$ 700 Start Sunday at Halong Pier or depart Hanoi / Finish Wednesday evening at Halong Pier Book SeaCanoe directly via our web site http://seacanoe.com E-mail: info@seacanoe.com * ends * From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 19:18:28 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:20:23 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Nathan Kahn Subject: Re: Chicago Trade Show Update Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >>My nights of the show are booked (with business schmoozing) but still hope >>to meet all you folks there. >>Denny > >I will agree with Denny, I will be there 2-4 nights, and will be >"schmoozing" most of the day...(Have to press these animitronic bodies, got >a TIG I have to pay for:) >I'll be at the RAMADA, no room number was given to me yet. I will be at the Hotel Sofitel, right across from the convention center, and in booths #1002-1008 and #1100. Be there or be square ;-) Nathan Nathan Kahn / Theatre Effects Home: kahnn@pa.net Work: nathan@theatrefx.com Work Web: www.theatrefx.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 19:23:57 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:37:09 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: FANGO FEST Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 06:01 PM 2/18/97 -0700, you wrote: > >GRRRRRRRRrr!!!!!!!!!!!If only this ghoul behind the curtain could raise >the funds to go to such a trade show! Bring it to la! :( (welp, several >more years.... :) > >Harry in a conked mood... Harry, drop by a bookstore and look for: GORE-ZONE magazine and FANGORIA (FANGO). Every year they mention big "Halloween" shows in October with the real stars from the movies, costume contests and great ideas. I've always missed going to one, but hey, your close! If I recall correctly, they are open to the public (admission fee), but to see the stuff they do there..WOW what a party! If you can't find one, I'll post the address for them. John ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 19:50:34 1997 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:39:52 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: hauntedattr@pelican.net (Oliver Holler) Subject: Re: Sharing scaring! Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Thank you for the inquiry. Sorry about the incompatibility. Haunted Attraction is a quarterly magazine for the dark amusement industry. Issues spotlight particular attractions, feature articles on safety, industry standards, laws, etc. , reader mail, resources for spooky stuff, designs and more! For a subscription here in the states, simply send a check or money order for just $16 ($32 elsewhere, US funds only) to: Haunted Attraction PO Box 451 North Myrtle Beach, SC 29597 (Be sure to include YOUR name, phone number and mailing address with ZIP code.) Thank you for your interest, and I look forward to adding your name to the many who haunt and subscribe! Sincerely, Oliver Holler Managing Editor, Haunted Attraction ps: If you'd like a free complimentary issue, send us your mailing info. Drop us a line and tell us what you think! From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 21:14:49 1997 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:04:09 -0400 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Jason R Subject: Re: SeaCanoe announces full Vietnam Programme Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >This is an announcement from SeaCanoe International. We are sending this >to >you because you are either a past customer, have made an enquiry about >SeaCanoe >in the past or we have had email correspondence with you >recently. I didnt know a Listserve could be a past customer.. {Guess the Spark 10 Sun systems, running Unix must have been on a Canoe trip recently, might explan for the problems we have had with the listserve being unresponsove latly} Jay ------------------------------------------------------------- -- Jason Roland -- -- Member FDC {Beach Club lighting tech} -- -- Webmaster of the VRC Homepage. All Disney, all the time. -- -- Http://www.vivanet.com/~thelazer -- -- "I told'em the truth, and they fell for it"-Harry Anderson -- ------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 21:15:14 1997 From: DWFWW@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 23:08:57 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Sharing scaring! To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Oliver, You wrote: >ps: What does this mean? "The Keys to the Kingdom: ..." is the Disney Park operations motto that has proven successful for them over the years: Safety (obvious) Courtesy (obvious) Show (theming, story, unified design of rides and attractions. An attraction is treated like a movie or play, and is designed to tell a story as you go through it, progressing from scene to scene, with dramatic principles in play.) Efficiency (no wasted space, motions, or materials) There's a behind-the-scenes tour by the same name at WDW MK (Orlando) that shows you exactly how these concepts work, and it includes a trek through the 'Utilidor' system (the substantial underground tunnels.) In regard to a column, I can't make a lonmg-term commitment to anything like that as of now. I'd be happy to do some short pieces, but the book must obviously come first, effort-wise. :-) -Doug *********************************************************************** * Safety, Courtesy, Show and Efficiency: * Doug Ferguson * * The Keys To The Kingdom * dwfww@jazz.ucc.uno.edu * * Phantasmechanics website - http://members.aol.com/phanmech/ * * Personal website - http://members.aol.com/orniske/ * *********************************************************************** From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 21:47:01 1997 From: SkinkSim@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:41:38 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Sharing scaring! Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com You know, "Keys to the Kingdom" is also a line from DAWN OF THE DEAD - which also strikes me as being rather appropriate for this list. From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 23:23:43 1997 From: DWFWW@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 01:17:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Sharing scaring! To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >You know, "Keys to the Kingdom" is also a line from DAWN OF THE DEAD - which >also strikes me as being rather appropriate for this list. Gosh! I haven't watched that in nearly 8 years... I need to review! :-) Safety: 'Never trust the living!' -Juno (_Beetlejuice_) Courtesy: 'They're coming to get you, Barbara!' (My wife's name!) Show: 'They're dead...they're all messed up!' Efficiency: They keep on coming... and coming... and coming... (the Energizer corpses) Of course, some of these references are to T.N.O.T.L.D., but what the heck. Dead is dead, after all, unless it's undead. -Doug F. (the footer seems redundundant) From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 23:38:56 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 23:42:22 -0700 Subject: SeaCanoe announces full Vietnam Programme To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com > long spam about a Hawaiian vacation > So THAT'S where Halloween-L has been going when it suddenly disappears from my mailbox! Otherwise.... I DON'T THINK SO. [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 18 23:43:37 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 23:46:24 -0700 Subject: FANGO FEST To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Thanks for the idea, John. the last time I went to a convention was so long ago it was in back in early 80's. I got to chitchat for a while with Ray Bradbury. (they were roasting him about a disney movie from a story of his). Very nice guy. Dan O'Bannon was also there, with a terminally pissed off air about him. He reminded me of Bob Dole after hearing the election results... So when is anyone going to film Shadowland, the most delicate and horrifying novel ever concieved? :) Harry [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 19 05:08:09 1997 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "Bruce & Tammy Miller" Subject: Re: SeaCanoe announces full Vietnam Programme Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 08:08:31 PST Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com TAKE ME OFF YOUR LIST!!! NOW!!!!! ---------- > >This is an announcement from SeaCanoe International. We are sending this > >to >you because you are either a past customer, have made an enquiry about > >SeaCanoe >in the past or we have had email correspondence with you > >recently. > > I didnt know a Listserve could be a past customer.. {Guess the Spark 10 Sun > systems, running Unix must have been on a Canoe trip recently, might explan > for the problems we have had with the listserve being unresponsove latly} > > Jay > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > -- Jason Roland > -- > -- Member FDC {Beach Club lighting tech} > -- > -- Webmaster of the VRC Homepage. All Disney, all the time. -- > -- Http://www.vivanet.com/~thelazer > -- > -- "I told'em the truth, and they fell for it"-Harry Anderson -- > ------------------------------------------------------------- > From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 19 18:25:03 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:18:05 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Show seminars Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hey All, Thought you folks would get a kick out a description for one of the seminars being given at the Halloween Trade Show. Quoted in part- "Mr. Jensen last year introduced Haunted America, the nation's first online guide to haunted attractions. In its first three months online, this Internet site attracted 200,000 visitors." I suspect that not only was Mr. Jensen's hit counter set wrong, he didn't know about, or failed to acknowledge, the hard work done by many of the people on this list setting up haunt and Halloween guides long before his. He also must've missed haunt guides done by hard working people like Steve Biggs at Special Effects Supply. ...and I'll quit ranting before I start on a marketing guru's seminar description. ;) Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Feb 20 00:28:52 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 02:27:32 -0600 (CST) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Show seminars Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Denny, I think the description left out one word that would have made the statement correct.Namely the quote should read:"Mr. Jensen last year introduced Haunted America, the nation's first "paid" online guide to haunted attractions."The others (Special Effects Supply,Halloween-O-Webbery,et.al) don't charge hundreds of dollars to be included on their lists. JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Feb 20 02:55:37 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 04:51:37 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Show seminars/banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 02:27 AM 2/20/97 -0600, you wrote: >Denny, I think the description left out one word that would have >made the statement correct.Namely the quote should read:"Mr. Jensen >last year introduced Haunted America, the nation's first "paid" >online guide to haunted attractions."The others (Special Effects >Supply,Halloween-O-Webbery,et.al) don't charge hundreds of dollars >to be included on their lists. Hey John, You're absolutely right. With all the good web sites around I doubt if he's made much money with it, the paid advertising looks like a person's first hour of learning HTML. Maybe if he added more blinking words? Denny PS. Good talking to you again the other day! Your little girl sounds like a wild one, but then again, considering the source... ;) B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Feb 20 06:16:16 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:11:23 +0000 From: Cliff Martin To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Show seminars Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com snip! > "Mr. Jensen last year introduced Haunted America, the nation's first online guide to haunted attractions. snip! > he didn't know about, or failed to acknowledge, the hard work done by many of the people on this list snip! > He also must've missed haunt guides done by ...Steve Biggs at Special Effects Supply. YES, VERY TRUE! (and paying the fees they were asking to be listed was ridiculous! - over $400 a year for four web pages if I recall correctly) BTW.... My last look at haunted america ( http://www.hauntedamerica.com ) was *very* unimpressive, but I've just taken another look at it (thanks to this discussion), and there are a couple of interesting areas on this web site. The Chat Line archive and the Post Mortem section describing patron's reactions to several haunts were both very interesting to read. There are a few valuable ideas and a couple of insights fellow halloweener's may enjoy. And, the halloween-l list was mentioned several times in the Chat Line as a great place for ideas! Maybe we can encourage a few of the listers there to join this group! (any converts out there?) JMHO, Cliff cliff.martin@saralee.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Feb 20 07:05:44 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 06:59:26 -0700 Subject: Show seminars To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com JD, that would explain why Haunted America's list is so small, and is not so representative of the haunted house world at large. Reminds me of the SoCal BBS list. To get listed, he wants money up front, so my BBS is not listed there. Cie le vie :) Harry [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Feb 20 07:16:17 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:07:32 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Show seminars Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 09:11 AM 2/20/97 +0000, you wrote: >YES, VERY TRUE! >(and paying the fees they were asking to be listed was ridiculous! - >over $400 a year for four web pages if I recall correctly) Hey Cliff I first heard $800.00 from a customer, but don't know it for a fact. Either way, Trix, Lauren (and all) need to up their rates. ;) > >BTW.... >My last look at haunted america ( http://www.hauntedamerica.com ) was >*very* unimpressive, but I've just taken another look at it (thanks to >this discussion), and there are a couple of interesting areas on this >web site. The Chat Line archive and the Post Mortem section describing >patron's reactions to several haunts were both very interesting to read. >There are a few valuable ideas and a couple of insights fellow >halloweener's may enjoy. >And, the halloween-l list was mentioned several times in the Chat Line >as a great place for ideas! Our own "buried at work" Stu McIntire was the first person on the chat line to mention Halloween-L. ... and I've gotta agree, the chat line is a very nice feature, a lot of talk about Hades Haunted House for some peculiar coincidence. The chat line is also interesting in that the chat concept points to the fact it may be time for a "haunt" newsgroup out there. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Feb 20 08:32:53 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 08:23:55 -0800 From: Spook To: asmith@westmont.edu, halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Hi There! Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Good to hear from you, honey! I am really coming down for Parent's Week-end! Made my reservations already at the Carpenteria Motel 6 where Dad stayed.....I'll come Firday after work and put down to go to the 60's diner thing...okay? I was also lured by the fact that the financial aid people will be there.....I'm trying really hard to NOT get worried about next fall!! I'm not sure about Spring Sing, as I should probably be back on the road by then, but we can play it by ear....no pun intended! Did you do your taxes yet? When we went in with ours, the guy said to remind you to mark that your parents still claim you and all is fine with that as long as you made less than 4,000......Ours are slightly delayed as we're waiting for the Schedule C from Linda's accountants(the business) to give to our tax guy because it DOES all go on ours! This should be interesting...... Speaking of $.....go pay your $.29 phone bill!!!! Can't believe thet spent $.32 to send me a $.29 bill!?!?!?!?!?!? Grandma and Grandpa are back in Ill.....Aunt Dorothy died on Wednesday and they went back to help Forrest take care of things....but I did mention our coming up to Deannne and your Dad and I think it will be a go..... Well, shall go for now....wrrite when ya can Love, Mom From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Feb 20 11:51:12 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:01:42 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Web vs. TV/radio/paper Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com (snip) Cliff wrote: >YES, VERY TRUE! >(and paying the fees they were asking to be listed was ridiculous! - >over $400 a year for four web pages if I recall correctly) Wow, you got quoted a deal! Our quote: "Your site will have 4 pages, you can give us the artwork or we will put something together for you... Your site will remain up until November 15th" (1996). I spoke to them in August-September of last year. I (myself) did not want to spend that kind of cash for about a months worth of 'Net advertising. That money paid for our TV shoot. But all the sites are still up, even though I was told they would be pulled on Nov. 15th. Go figure :) Granted the (Haunted America) site is under construction, and intersting idea. But I don't think many people (within driving distance) would actually come to the attraction based on a web-advertisement alone. Radio is still the main focus for any place. TV is great, not too expensive and the paper is a great way to advertise. The best and cheapest form of advertisement is, and shall remain; WORD OF MOUTH. BTW: We did our TV ads (300) for under $2,000. The shoot, editing, and all. They were 30 second commercials. This year, (we) are doing everything (not the TV station), and just scheduling time for the editing. The cost for the same amount of ads (300) will come in to a little over $800.00 total. If you have a "Public Access" staion that will loan you the equipment and an editing booth, you can do it all and just pay for the time slots $3-$12 per 30 sec. slot. More about this if requested. -Nuff said :) John ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Feb 20 18:43:19 1997 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:29:00 -0600 (CST) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Make-up and Trade Shows Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Heres something I came across that might interest whoever was asking about make-up (sorry I forgot) and especially to Harry in L.A. "Make-up Magazine announces the first annual Make-up Trade Show" Sunday Aug 3rd,1997 Beverly Garland Hotel 4222 Vineland Ave. N.Hollywood, California 91602 This show is offering classes in the latex appliances as well as others that could be helpfull to any haunters in the area.Incidently the Chicago show does have a few seminars on make-up if you happen to be going. JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 21 08:34:19 1997 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:27:13 +0000 From: Cliff Martin To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Web vs. TV/radio/paper Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com John, Yes! please tell more about TV advertising (is there such a thing as cheap TV? - well, cheap advertising, that is...) BTW, I agree advertising on the web is an interesting idea. And out of curiousity, I added the question "do you use the internet?" to our exit interview, and ALL but one response amounted to "what's that?". hmmm.... If I may, I'd like to ask the group about advertising (if you do advertise) "What are the best ways you have found to improve attendance?" We advertised on a lot on radio, and passed out hundreds of flyers. We also offered $1 off coupons. All of which seemed to work well. Radio was very expensive, but drew in people from as far as 30 miles away. Newspaper ads were very high ($56-$78 per day for a 2 inch square classified ad). Any other (or better) ways? Any pointers (from anywhere) will be most welcome. Cliff cliff.martin@saralee.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 21 09:40:44 1997 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:36:13 -0800 From: Spook To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Web vs. TV/radio/paper Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Cliff, We shot and aired our own TV commercials. Results? Hmmmmm.... Good question. We're still trying to figure that out. We will do it again this year, but will change our style. We did learn that being "artistic" may be a bunch of fun, but it doesn't grab their attention. Our exit interviews showed that the NUMBER ONE way of getting folks to get in their cars was to get on live on the 6:pm news. Sad but true. We spent thousands on advertising, and 9 out of 10 people polled said, "Yeah, I saw you guys on the news." If its on the news, its REAL. Buying TV spots is a real education. You can get 100 rotators on the local cable supplier for less than a one day print ad, but you don't know where your spot is going to show. Of course, you can also get 1 spot on "Friends" for about $1,800 per 30-second spot. No problem. I don't think the web will really pay off, but to not have a website would be insane. Our exits showed that people looked up our website to get info about the house. They already new the house was there, but wanted more info. Also, we have our site linked from our City's website, which does help. That's all for now! Mark From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 21 10:03:04 1997 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:21:21 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Web vs. TV/radio/paper-Hints Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Snip Cliff wrote: > > "What are the best ways you have found to improve attendance?" > >We advertised on a lot on radio, and passed out hundreds of flyers. We >also offered $1 off coupons. All of which seemed to work well. Radio >was very expensive, but drew in people from as far as 30 miles away. >Newspaper ads were very high ($56-$78 per day for a 2 inch square >classified ad). > The high price of TV ads comes from the production and editing of the commercial. Our local cable operator (TCI MEDIA) sells 30 second slots starting at $3.00 per slot up to $12.00 per slot. Prices will very depending on station, and city. Our ads ran on MTV (local) for about $6.00 per slot. Depending on your cable service provider, you can choose your airtime. We picked 6-10 pm M-F and 8am-10am Sat-Sun and 6-10pm on the same days. They should give you a schedule of when they are to be shown on the stations chosen. TCI gave us one, and it was within 15-30 min. of being correct. Papers should run stories about your place, I wouldn't buy a page ad, unless you can hook up with another business to cut the cost of it: i.e. coupons. Publicity stunts are great to get people involved. Get some people in costume and walk about town. Sit on a bench and talk to people as they pass, and hand them a flyer. You may draw the attention of a mobile News reporter. You may want to drop a hint to the station on what you are doing. News coverage is real good on getting peoples attention. Get your adults and go "bar hopping", be sure to talk to the Manager of the club first. If your schedule allows, put on a costume party for them. Get a cash pool going and give prizes. Not only will the adults visit (hopefully sober) but the club will love the business it generates. Take tickets and flyers to fast-food stores. If they are not allowed to pass out your flyers, then they can give them to co-workers and friends. Many stores will gladly push your flyers in exchange for a piece of advertising on posters or hand-bills. (McDonalds, Subway, Pizza Hut, Etc..) Set up a temporary phone line. Here the cost is about $40-60.00 for a months worth of service. Put an answering machine on it detailing your event, and people that are helping out: i.e. "Harry's Hardware store on 5th and main." Don't do phone solicitations "Hi, my name is Mud, I'm calling about...CLICK!" It's rude, and people take it for a scam, no matter who the event is. Go to wherever your target group goes, politely ask of you may leave some flyers there, and give them some tickets. Treat people with respect, they will return the favor. Hope this helps, John ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 21 11:19:53 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:09:58 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Web vs. TV/radio/paper-Hints Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >Cliff wrote: >"What are the best ways you have found to improve attendance?" Besides what has already been mentioned, taking out advertising space in local high school and junior college autumn, printed, sports programs is usually inexpensive and places your ad in front of students and parents trying to find entertainment. Most colleges and some high schools also have campus radio stations with very reasonable rates. Remember that in many areas the higher percentage of your paying public will come from older teenagers and young adults who don't spend much time reading newspapers. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 21 18:42:56 1997 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 21:34:02 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: hauntedattr@pelican.net (Oliver Holler) Subject: Re: Web vs. TV/radio/paper Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Cliff wrote: >If I may, I'd like to ask the group about advertising (if you do >advertise) > > "What are the best ways you have found to improve attendance?" I don't think it can be said that one particular way is the BEST way. Aside from the old saying about 'word of mouth', which is truly magical, but not for sale at any price! The Spirit Theatre in Key West found that radio and tv weren't as effective as flyers and brochures. They are year-round, and in a high tourist area. With these results, they decided to invest their advertising dollars into printing on higher quality paper, with professional artwork and layout designs. Multi-colored printing, and really sharp marbleized business cards. -And that worked best -for them. I personally came to believe in the almighty TV 2 years ago, when the local station sponsored us. -We truly are a TV nation. Something funny happend-(has anyone else experienced this. . .?) During the day, while repairing a broken effect for the evening show, the phone would suddenly ring off the hook for about 5 minutes at a time. Then quiet for a while. Then ringggging off the hook again. I finally figured out that it happened every time our commercial ran on TV! Pavlov would get a big laugh out of that one! -As I did! There are many ways to advertise. But it is often less expensive, and more rewarding to get it through 'sponsorshipping.' Grim and Grinning, Oliver hauntedattr@pelican.net http://www.pelican.net/hauntedmagazine From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Feb 21 19:19:48 1997 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 21:18:55 -0600 (CST) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Show seminars/banter (long) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Last year's HH seminar at the Chicago Trade Show should have been titled "How to promote your Haunted Attraction plus a few other stuff".If memory serves me correctly last years seminar consisted of about 8 classes,1 each on safety,code compliance,lighting and sound,themeing,and about 4 classes on marketing.Now while market- ing is very important, I'm not sure that it warrants the most att- ention in a seminar that promotes itself as being for "beginners to seasoned veterans".There are literally hundreds of books on marketing techniques and while they don't deal with HHs directly, you can get a lot of usefull info.Especially useful are chapters dealing with "How to Promote a Grand Opening".Are there marketing ideas that are unique to HHs? Sure,but they could have been summed up in 1 or 2 classes.Much more than marketing, HHs are unique from any other venture in what they are trying to accomplish:entertain- ment through fear.How much info is out there on this subject? Not much.Creating the right atmosphere is everything.Yet the operators of the seminar lumped lighting and sound into one hour, and judging from the number of classes given, consider marketing 4 times as important.Another problem with the seminar was, in the case of at least one speaker,they seemed more interested in promoting their "HH Consulting" business than they were providing any helpfull info.I know I for one didn't pay over $200.00 to hear an inform- ercial. So was the seminar all bad? No.The speakers that did talk were very knowledgable and provided some valuable material.One of the best things about the seminar was the oppurtunity to meet operators of haunts large and small from all over the country.This was the chance to really get advice and ideas if you needed it. I don't know if this years seminar will be different.I'm supposed to get info in the next couple of days.They did pass out a critique at the end of last years and hopefully they paid attention to some of the complaints/suggestions that were written.It is only their third year so I hope this was just a case of "growing pains". Sorry this is so long but I thought it might help anyone on the list that was contemplating whether or not to attend. JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 00:07:30 1997 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 02:07:38 -0600 (CST) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Web vs. TV/radio/paper-Hints Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Denny's right we had real good luck with H.S./College newspapers. We even got a full page color add in one H.S. paper for $30.00! Another way we have had decent results is billboards if you can get them.Alot of billboard owners want you to sign a 6 or 12 month lease but if you can talk one into a 1 month we found the price to be reasonable. JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 00:07:31 1997 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 02:06:49 -0600 (CST) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Converts and the list Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com On Thu, Cliff wrote: >..And,the halloween-l list was mentioned several times in the Chat Line >as a great place for ideas! Maybe we can encourage a few of the listers >there to join this group! (any converts out there?) and Denny wrote: >...The chat line is also interesting in that the chat concept points to >the fact it might be time for a "haunt" newsgoup out there. These posts got me wondering.If we get alot of "converts" could this list end up being a "haunt" list? It's my understanding that this is supposed to be about all things falling under halloween.While HH's do fall under this, if we get alot of "converts" that inundate the list with HH posts (I know I'm one of them) it may scare away some potential listers who have other halloween interests (such as recipes,costumes, stories,decorations etc.).As someone who is relatively new to this list maybe it is not my place to raise such an issue (if it even is one). I know from the archives that there are many longstanding members of this list that are interested in haunts but I'm sure there are others who have no interest in them at all.So whats the solution? I don't know but some possibilities are: 1)HH posts could be preceded by a special subject header such as HH corner-(subject),or simply HH-(subject).With subjects being such things as gore vs. non-gore,HH reviews,types of HHs,room ideas,design,guided vs.unguided,working with charities,getting started,etc.This way a list member who has no interest in haunts can simply ignore or choose only the particular topic they are interested in. 2)HH operators should find or create their own newsgroup or limit their posts to subjects that would be non-haunt business specific (i.e. ticket prices,crowd control,etc.) 3)This post is all "much ado about nothing",there is no potential prob- lem, leave us alone. The last thing I want to do is cause a problem/controversy.I joined this list to share ideas and my interests aren't limited to HHs.The only reason I bring it up is that if it is a potential problem than I am only contr- ibuting to it (since 90% of my posts deal with HHs). Any feedback especially from longstanding members would be appreciated. JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 06:30:07 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 08:24:47 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Converts/long post Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 02:06 AM 2/22/97 -0600, you wrote: >On Thu, Cliff wrote: >>..And,the halloween-l list was mentioned several times in the Chat Line >>as a great place for ideas! Maybe we can encourage a few of the listers >>there to join this group! (any converts out there?) > >and Denny wrote: >>...The chat line is also interesting in that the chat concept points to >>the fact it might be time for a "haunt" newsgoup out there. JD wrote: >These posts got me wondering.If we get alot of "converts" could this >list end up being a "haunt" list? It's my understanding that this is >supposed to be about all things falling under halloween.... (Deletions Made For Brevity) Please know my comment about a newsgroup was only meant as an observation not a suggestion of any sort, I should have worded it better. I personally like mailing lists much more than newsgroups, but many active newsgroup people have never belonged to a mailing list. What we may be seeing is more of a seasonal phenomenon right now, it's time for haunt people to start thinking about their '97 house. The list will find its' own level as far as the type of members. Don has always allowed the list to go its' way as long as the subject touches on Halloween. I certainly understand your concerns, without other facets of Halloween the list gets pretty boring. > if we get alot of "converts" that inundate the list >with HH posts (I know I'm one of them) it may scare away some potential >listers who have other halloween interests (such as recipes,costumes, >stories,decorations etc.). Fortunately as Halloween gets closer we do see more variety in the posts. There's just not much of a reason for some people who really love Halloween to be active right now. I was hoping to see the "Halloween Collectable" thread go further than it did. >As someone who is relatively new to this list >maybe it is not my place to raise such an issue (if it even is one). Maybe your raising it will help prevent it from becoming an issue anytime soon. New and old members should say what's on their minds. >I know from the archives that there are many longstanding members of >this list that are interested in haunts but I'm sure there are others >who have no interest in them at all.So whats the solution? I don't >know but some possibilities are: I'll reply to a few of your suggestions with my humble opinions... >1)HH posts could be preceded by a special subject header such as HH >corner-(subject),or simply HH-(subject). This could help some people, but the subject line description should still offer the best hint of what's going on. Many of our problems occur when the subject wanders and the subject line no longer matches the thread. I usually try adding part of the new subject direction on the subject line. An example would be- Converts/ was RE:Show Seminars Your suggestions certainly wouldn't hurt, if we remember to do it. I follow what Don the List Meister decides. This list is one of the calmest ones on the net... unless Don goes on vacation. Many of us believe he "spikes" the list just before he leaves. Don left me in charge of this and the xmas-L list again for a few days last fall. I wouldn't even open the mail on xmas-L until I had a stiff drink first. Then there was the time Don disappeared in Reno for a month. ;) >2)HH operators should find or create their own newsgroup or limit their >posts to subjects that would be non-haunt business specific (i.e. ticket >prices,crowd control,etc.) There will always be subjects that don't belong on a public list: profits, losses, wholesale and distributor pricing, etc. and may warrant a separate list or lists, there is some "backstage" corresponding that goes on now when the subject is improper. The haunted house subjects covered so far on the list such as safety, marketing, room designs, lighting, prop building, themes, sources and such certainly seem appropriate. Especially safety. The variety on this list is what makes it enjoyable to me and I suspect most people. I learn as much or more from the Halloween crafters and historians as I do from the haunted house people. >3)This post is all "much ado about nothing",there is no potential prob- >lem, leave us alone. Never hurts to head it off, the fact that you brought it up probably means others feel the same way. It should be aired. >The last thing I want to do is cause a problem/controversy. You've been a troublemaker from day one. ;) >I joined this >list to share ideas and my interests aren't limited to HHs.The only reason >I bring it up is that if it is a potential problem than I am only contr- >ibuting to it (since 90% of my posts deal with HHs). Now there's a problem, never feel guilty about being an active member. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 07:40:24 1997 From: The Youngs To: "halloween-l@netcom.com" , "'milwiron@btprod.com'" Subject: RE: Converts/long post, well not so long anymor Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 10:39:12 -0500 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hey from someone who primarily does crafts, I can say that I enjoy reading the mail concerning haunts, I've learned a lot and actually started doing up the front of the house. Due to finances it'll be a slow process, but it's still great. I have only one objection to any postings on this list, I DON'T LIVE IN CALIFORNIA and you guys have the best haunts and attractions :( Jacqui From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 08:54:59 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 08:55:10 -0700 Subject: Converts and the list To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Welp JD, one thing about the Halloween-L list is that it is a most democratic place. Veteran haunters and newcomers from all sides of the tracks come and rub elbows and ideas. Lots of pretty good ideas and precepts have been discussed in here that methinks havw gone far beyond what the veteran types would look at in a business setting :) For example, me and my best friend are working towards setting up a haunt for the Los Angeles area, bout 5 years, we hope. Completely home built unit. The best advice and ideas have been from looking around and on the Halloween-L list. Denny has been a fantastic help with som great books and videos which he recommended to me which proved to be exactly what we were looking for. (waiting for the next ones to come in, Denny! :) We feel allergic to the commercial crank throughs and pre-fab types sold through major manufacturers. We are the types who feel we can get more mileage from a homemade room effect than a 5-10 grand special effect from a supply house. In the convention thing, methinks we would be looked down upon as amateur night. On here, we are all gauged more by our input. Not graded by how much, but by ourselves being on here. Someone who posts clever recipes for food is equally worth as much input as a veteran who describes a new special effect design. Harry [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 09:43:10 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:37:40 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Converts and the list Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 08:55 AM 2/22/97 -0700, you wrote small part: >(waiting for the next ones to come in, Denny! :) The "man" tells me about two more weeks for the new one, he blames writer's block. Denny PS. 5 more inches of snow here, the Hog is collecting more dust. Maybe I'll pull the rear wheel off, attach a blade and make a table saw out of it. :( B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 10:35:26 1997 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:52:15 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Attempted EYE recipe Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com RECIPE??? GEEZ YOU COOK??? Well, sort of :) I never posted a recipe before, but here is something that I thought people could toy with and improve. It's a Jello based recipe, I (attempted) some for a party, maybe a little help would work...Laugh if you must. :) Jello Eye-ball dessert topper. 1 package of unflavored un-colored gelatin (knotts). 1 package of cherry or strawberry. White chocolate (I used candy-bars) Small jar of cherries. One egg carton. Or something for your "eye-mold" Cut the carton in half (6 egg ports) and set aside, this will be the "eye" mold. Cut down the other 6 to make as close to a sphere as possible when they are together. Cut the very top off of the pieces to pour your jello. Take a cherry and run it through with a tooth-pick. Set it aside. Prepare the cherry or strawberry jello. Place the cherries so they sit in the middle of the egg carton, suspended by the tooth pick. Pour to cover HALF of the cherry, place in fridge to start the cure. Once is it begun to set up, take out the tooth pick and cover with the other half of the carton pieces. Use clear wrap to seal them together. Then fill them up with the jello. Allow them to set up good. Once they are set up, re-scure with a long tooth pick or Ka-bab, set aside. Prepare the white chocolate on a dbl. boiler and melt it down. Once it's melted, dip them in the white chocolate, then quickly in cold water to cool the chocolate. Dip two or three times, whatever your chocolate meter wants:) Then, remove the tooth-pick, and dab a bit of chocolate to seal the hole. Place then back into the egg carton, and whip up the clear jello, cover one half at a time with just enough to make a "skin". Flip over and do the other half. Presto, nasty little globe thingies that have a hidden surprise. Mine did not look much like eyeballs, but they were something different:) Oh well...just a thought:) John ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 11:44:32 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:44:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Converts and the list To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com (2 more weeks for the next book) (snipped) I've been talking to the man as well. Real kewl guy. I've been throwing him ideas back and forth. Tape 2, books 3 and 4. Steady customer here, and excited and willing :) Move out here. I won't make you jealous with the weather, but I can go out in shorts outside today.... :) Harry under the palm trees [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 11:58:49 1997 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:15:34 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Re: Converts and the list-Banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com (snip) >Move out here. I won't make you jealous with the weather, but I can go >out in shorts outside today.... :) > >Harry under the palm trees > I could go out in shorts too, but my neighbors might call the guys in white jackets on me....again:) John--Shivering in the cold. ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 13:19:32 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:09:14 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Converts/banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 11:44 AM 2/22/97 -0700, you wrote: >Move out here. I won't make you jealous with the weather, but I can go >out in shorts outside today.... :) > >Harry under the palm trees Not with that mandatory lid law you guys have now. But, if my wife ever throws me out I'll be sleeping on your couch. Denny From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 13:19:47 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:14:05 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Converts and the list-Banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 03:15 PM 2/22/97 -0500, you wrote: >I could go out in shorts too, but my neighbors might call the guys in white >jackets on me....again:) > >John--Shivering in the cold. I hear your neighbors have the boys in white coats on speed dial, well... at least mine do. :( Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 13:42:56 1997 From: ZTBJAZZ@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:35:27 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-L@netcom.com Subject: suscribe Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Body of Msg suscribe halloween-Zach From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 15:24:47 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:25:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Converts/banter To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Not a prob about my couch to sleep out here. mandatorty lid law ain't so bad. if you don't mind being surrounded by a whole bunch of arcade games and coaster things, with Halloween things here are there (but very little visible)..... [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 16:46:58 1997 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:46:27 -0600 (CST) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Converts and the list Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Thanks to everyone who responded to my post both privately and on the list.One thing I want to clear up is that I was in no way try- ing to be critical of the number of posts regarding HHs lately.I was just making sure I wasn't alienating any list members who might have other halloween interests.I guess the overall response was "you can't have too much of a good thing".The solution I think is not to try and limit the number of posts on any particular subject but rather encourage others to bring their ideas/questions forward. The wonderfull thing about this list is that it provides an outlet for people who have a passion about a topic that we are not able to share in most common circles.Halloweener's are hard to come acr- oss in our everyday lives.So keep the posts coming!!Your ideas are wanted and help/advice is out there. JD "the trouble-maker" jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 18:00:37 1997 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 20:01:05 -0600 (CST) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Pumpkin preservation (maybe) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Since I have been so graciously labeled as a trouble-maker and to prove my interests extend beyond HHs let me through this monkey in the wrench.Since many of this list were inter- ested in preserving pumpkins this may turn out to be a poss- ibiliy in the future or it may just further the notion that I'm just plain nuts.At last years Halloween Trade Show there was a booth next to PumpkinMasters that had a device that the proprieter claimed to be the microwave equivalent of a freeze- dry machine.He claimed you could put your pre-carved pumpkin in this device and in just a short time period, would be completely freeze-dried and preserved indefinitely.I think it used liquid nitrogen.The cost? About $40,000.Haven't heard anything about this since.Anybody else who attended last year's show come across this display.(Btw I bought 3 of them, just haven't had a chance to try it out.Also bought some valuable Florida swampland from the same guy ;) JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 18:03:15 1997 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 20:59:13 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: hauntedattr@pelican.net (Oliver Holler) Subject: RE: Converts/long post, well not so long anymor Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Jacqui wrote: >I have only one objection to any postings on this list, I DON'T LIVE IN