>CALIFORNIA and you guys have the best haunts and attractions :( Heyyyyyy now. California IS scary, but. . . the BEST???? Them's FRIGHTIN' words! :-) Oliver (lil' ol haunt in North Carolina) hauntedattr@pelican.net http://www.pelican.net/hauntedmagazine From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 18:44:53 1997 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:42:38 -0800 From: Bob Andrews To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Converts/long post, BANTER Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Oliver Holler wrote: > Heyyyyyy now. California IS scary, but. . . the BEST???? > Them's FRIGHTIN' words! :-) > Oliver (lil' ol haunt in North Carolina) > > hauntedattr@pelican.net > http://www.pelican.net/hauntedmagazine You would have to hack all night to cough up something scarier than our Pete Wilson! -- Bob Andrews bandrews@inreach.com http://www.anaserve.com/~BoBandrews From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 18:58:58 1997 From: The Youngs To: "halloween-l@netcom.com" , "'Oliver Holler'" Subject: RE: Converts/long post, well not so long anymor Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 21:58:33 -0500 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Well I won't get into an argument about which of the states has the best haunts, I will guarantee it isn't a province. Jacqui In (the seriously deprived at Halloween) Canada ---------- Heyyyyyy now. California IS scary, but. . . the BEST???? Them's FRIGHTIN' words! :-) Oliver (lil' ol haunt in North Carolina) hauntedattr@pelican.net http://www.pelican.net/hauntedmagazine From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 19:22:14 1997 Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 21:21:31 -0600 (CST) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: HH seminar Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Since I was sort of critical of the'96 Chicago Trade Show HH Seminar in a previous post I feel its only fair to post this update.I receiv- ed the info on the '97 seminar and can happily report an improved format.This year attendees will have the oppurtunity to choose from 3 different classes on 5 of 7 seminars given.The seminars are divided into 3 catagories; Marketing,Creativity,and Operations.Guess I should have held my tongue (or maybe they heard my rant :) JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Feb 22 19:34:14 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 19:34:26 -0700 Subject: RE: Converts/long post, well not so long anymor To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com No Jaqui. We don't have the absolute best, I don't think. We have a whole bunch, and one particular bit of Halloween heaven in our neighborhood. I speak of the Knotts Halloween Haunt, which features 11 haunted houses and 35 acres fully themed. Each haunted house would rate from a 6.5 to a 9, with the majority being an 8 rating. Last year, over 1,000 walking ghouls were used in the houses and in the streets. Live acts and shows also complemented the whole shebang. For the price of $30 each night, it's the ultimate in Halloween nirvana. Spooky World holding 2, maybe 3 houses and a hayride? Bah. It is an event I live for. Oh, and 3 of the haunted houses you ride through, being a train, a dark ride and a log ride. Harry "Thou shalt not spill thy seed" - House of Maniacs [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Feb 23 00:24:10 1997 From: Spookyfx@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 03:19:24 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Converts/long post, well not so long anymor Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I am new to this newsleter and the web, what is the proto call for sending contributions? From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Feb 23 10:16:11 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 12:11:34 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Cold Foam was Make-up Effects Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >At 01:15 PM 2/14/97 -0500, someone wrote: > >>It is still out there and is made by Kryolan. The only reason I have not >>used the stuff is because it is not safe to use and you have to go through >>hades to dispose of the containers the parts come in. It produces >>Iso-Cyanate gas ... (balance deleted for brevity) > I wrote: > TDI (Toluene Diisocyanate), often referred to as "isocyanate", is a >prepolymer that along with other prepolymers primarily outgas carbon >dioxide, some methane and very, very small amounts of cyanide when mixed >with water. You'd suffocate from the CO2 before the cyanide had any effect. >Isocyanate is not a byproduct of polymerization. "Uncured" isocyanates can >be left behind in a poorly mixed resin. > Isocyanate was removed from the non-industrial market because of its' >toxicity and rather high vapor density, it loves looking for other >hydrocarbons whether it's another prepolymer or your lungs and liver. High >performance resins can still be had that contain isocyanate. Up until a few >years ago it was a very common ingredient in urethanes, it has now generally >been replaced by diisocyanate or MDI (Methylenediphenyl Diisocyanate) and >MDDI (Modified Diphenylmethane Diisocyanate). >...and yes, this is another reason why women won't talk to me at cocktail >parties. >I'd take my chances with TDI or MDI any day of the week before trusting the >tobacco industry. >Denny > Hey all, Since I posted my reply about isocyanates and what they are above, I have become aware that 2 part cold latex foam is still readily available. I do not know for a fact if it contains toluene diisocyanate (TDI isocyanate) . I would suggest though, if it does, proper handling, ventilation and mixing techniques will render the process safer than walking through the paint section at a hardware store. To answer the question raised about disposal, most modern two part resin systems are theoretically 100% solids when properly mixed. Disposal as a cured solid is the best bet. Unused resins, unable to be mixed and cured should be properly labeled and disposed of at local haz-mat recycling centers. Epoxy glues, paint and other common household chemicals should also be taken to haz-mat centers. I would be happy to try and answer questions from anyone considering working with curative resins such as epoxy, urethane, latex, polyesters, silicone, etc. off the list. Just write or call. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares 630-830-9561 7:30 am. to 5:30 pm. CST fax 630-830-9577 24 hours From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Feb 23 10:16:33 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 12:11:36 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Converts/long post, well not so long anymor Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 03:19 AM 2/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >I am new to this newsleter and the web, what is the proto call for sending >contributions? Do it. Welcome to the list. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Feb 23 11:15:34 1997 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:32:08 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Re: Cold Foam was Make-up Effects-banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com (SNIP-o-LA) > Unused resins, unable to be mixed and cured >should be properly labeled and disposed of at local haz-mat recycling >centers. Epoxy glues, paint and other common household chemicals should also >be taken to haz-mat centers. This reminds me of the NAVY policies regarding materials. I had to become HAZ-MAT certified just to get regular floor wax for our space on the ship. Only Haz-Mat PO's were allowed to gather, use and return any materials that were used to clean, polish, paint, or wax. Lots of class-work for simple floor wax :) The lesson is, if it's not bio-degradable (food waste), take it to the proper handling facility. John ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Feb 23 12:51:35 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:47:03 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Cold Foam was Make-up Effects-banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 02:32 PM 2/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >The lesson is, if it's not bio-degradable (food waste), take it to the >proper handling facility. > >John Oh yeah, where does a Big-Mac fit into the scheme of things? ;) Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Feb 23 14:16:40 1997 Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 17:31:00 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Re:Foam was Make-up Effects-banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 02:47 PM 2/23/97 -0600, you wrote: >At 02:32 PM 2/23/97 -0500, you wrote: > >>The lesson is, if it's not bio-degradable (food waste), take it to the >>proper handling facility. >> >>John > >Oh yeah, where does a Big-Mac fit into the scheme of things? ;) >Denny > I don't know really. The government still has many stored in cryogenic chambers awaiting further study :) John ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Feb 23 20:05:44 1997 From: Spookyfx@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 23:00:20 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Cold Foam was Make-up Effects-banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hate to say it, but even "food waste" can be considered "hazards material" requiring a special permit for disposal. My room mate is an industrial regulatory specialist for the Morton Salt co. She says there are "foods" like salad oil that come under the regulations if they are disposed of in large quantity. This nation of laws we live in can be depressing sometimes.... From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 03:19:37 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 06:11:12 EST To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Bill Lewis Subject: Re: Web vs. TV/radio/paper Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 09:34 PM 2/21/97 -0500, you wrote: >The Spirit Theatre in Key West found that radio and tv weren't as effective >as flyers and brochures. They are year-round, and in a high tourist area. >With these results, they decided to invest their advertising dollars into >printing on higher quality paper, with professional artwork and layout >designs. Multi-colored printing, and really sharp marbleized business >cards. -And that worked best -for them. How come I've never seen it? I've been to Key West close to a dozen times in the last 10 years, and as recently as last September. Granted all of my trips have been work related. But I think I would've noticed it. Then again, maybe I have. Is this the old theatre on Duvall street that they've been renovating for several years? Sort of up towards the north end, on the west side of the the street? BTW did you know that they have converted the old Shell Shop (old victorian house) into a Hard Rock Cafe? The place has gone total tourist. But I digress.. On a related subject, I can understand why TV doesn't work in Key West. The tourist's are on Duvall street, not in their rooms watching TV, or least not the local access stations. Everyone hands out flyers on Duvall St. Bill Lewis NSWC Carderock Division Code 6060 (301) 227-2742 lewisw@oasys.dt.navy.mil From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 03:21:57 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 06:13:52 EST To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Bill Lewis Subject: Re: Converts and the list Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 02:06 AM 2/22/97 -0600, you wrote: >3)This post is all "much ado about nothing",there is no potential prob- >lem, leave us alone. This is my vote :> Bill Lewis NSWC Carderock Division Code 6060 (301) 227-2742 lewisw@oasys.dt.navy.mil From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 03:50:10 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 05:46:00 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re:Foam -banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >>At 02:32 PM 2/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >> >>>The lesson is, if it's not bio-degradable (food waste), take it to the >>>proper handling facility. >>>John >> >>Oh yeah, where does a Big-Mac fit into the scheme of things? ;) >>Denny >> >I don't know really. The government still has many stored in cryogenic >chambers awaiting further study :) >John Well that's just great, more tax money, the darn things have a room temperature half life of 500,000 years. Don't let the executive branch of government kid you John, that's Bill's private stock in the super fridge (though he'll claim to know nothing about it). Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 06:57:28 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:45:34 +0000 From: Cliff Martin To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Converts and the list -Banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Denny wrote: > 5 more inches of snow here, the Hog is collecting more dust. Maybe I'll pull > the rear wheel off, attach a blade and make a table saw out of it. :( > Naaa, makes it harder to ride.... Take off the Front wheel and replace it with a ski, and add 2" spikes to the back wheel! BTW - theres a 'sport' in New England (at least there was way back in the 70's) called 'bike ice racing' where the serious maniacs spike both wheels (with 1"-2" spikes!) and race madly around frozen lakes. The crashes were spectacular (and an ambulance was a mandatory sideline item!) Cliff cliff.martin@saralee.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 07:06:06 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:56:14 +0000 From: Cliff Martin To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Converts/long post, well not so long anymor Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Spookyfx@aol.com wrote: > > I am new to this newsleter and the web, what is the proto call for sending > contributions? Just send 'em in! No Fear Here! (this is a great bunch 'o folks, ready and willing to share their ideas and experiences!) WELCOME to the group! Cliff cliff.martin@saralee.net P.S. check out the halloween-l archives at: http://www.calweb.com/~bertino/halloween.html that's a great place to start! From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 08:32:22 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:20:48 +0000 From: Cliff Martin To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Web vs. TV/radio/paper Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi All! To my question: 'What are the best ways you have found to improve attendance?' I just want to thank everyone for your responses! !!! THANK YOU !!! Cliff cliff.martin@saralee.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 08:45:27 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08:32:21 -0800 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Greg Hope Subject: RE: Converts/long post, well not so long anymor Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 08:59 PM 2/22/97 -0500, you wrote: >Jacqui wrote: >>I have only one objection to any postings on this list, I DON'T LIVE IN >>CALIFORNIA and you guys have the best haunts and attractions :( > >Heyyyyyy now. California IS scary, but. . . the BEST???? > Them's FRIGHTIN' words! :-) >Oliver (lil' ol haunt in North Carolina) Yeah...isn't there a little place called Cape Fear somewhere out there? Greg T (619) 945-4424 F (619) 726-2804 E ghope@mailhost.csusm.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 09:53:30 1997 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Jim Kadel Subject: Re: Converts/long post, well not so long anymor Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 10:46:38 -0700 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Cliff Martin writes (in part) today: snip >Just send 'em in! >No Fear Here! snip Hey Cliff, "No Fear Here!"?? If so, then we're in the wrong business :} Jim Kadel (jimk@rica.net) From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 10:16:50 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 13:08:15 -0500 (EST) From: Gerald A Thoma To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: new guy Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hello everyone, I finally got around to signing up to this list after wading through the halloween-l archive I found on the web (all 2.4 megs!). I am really excited about finally talking too all of you. Let me first tell a little about myself. I am a college student in MD and I tend to get a little overzealous about halloween. Last year I made a setup that I was rather proud of considering I don't like to spend much money on this hobby.(Too many other hobbies ;)) Perhaps some of these will appeal to the budget conscious among us I took some ideas from the archive and decided to make the foam skeleton. I found a cheap paper mache skull and and and added some detail with my airbrush. I also made it so he was holding an antique looking lantern I had found at a auction. Dressing him up in some clothes (black of course!) I included a coat hanger that just came to his neck. This I attached to a a noose. I taped some of those blinking eyes that you can find in stores and I ended up with a hanged man that got the kids shouting.(I also put a small voodoo doll I had in his front pocket, it had a noose around its neck too!):) I also made another dummy but tried something else with it. I got a chair and put a large bucket on it. On this I put a cheap record player with a long necked funnel taped to the turntable. I made a suitably demonic head from paper mace made with newspaper and a glue of flour and water. I added blinking eyes,vampire fangs, and one of those gross latex tongues they have been recently seling. I topped it of with a bandana and some cheap stingy hair that is sold in dollor stores. turn on the player and you have a spinning headed person. The total cost for both of these was under $20. Well that all I've got to tell. I'll write more on some cheap and easy ideas as they com to me. I apologize if this letter is long-winded. PS: I don't know if the idea has already been toss out to you, but has anyone heard of a prop called a "bloody knife". It's a knife with a resevoir of blood in the handle that flows from the blade. It's not something I need right now but I could type up how to make it if you want it. __________________ Gerald Gthoma@polaris.umuc.edu __________________ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 11:24:26 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:12:58 +0100 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: makeup@earthlink.net (Tad Peters) Subject: Re: Web vs. TV/radio/paper Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >Cliff, > >We shot and aired our own TV commercials. Results? We have been on TV for about 5 years, all the time, all year round... We look at increase, the best spots for us seems to be one that run during auto racing events... I know where does that come from, but a local cable commercail that runs during espn racing week will generate more revenue than a weeks worth or sponsoring A&E mystery week. I don't get it but it works. Tad Peters A. Harlequin Costume makeup@earthlink.net 9589 Foothill Blvd tpeters@webbwerks.com Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730 www.costumemagic.com <=- Web Page (909) 948-2950 From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 12:08:03 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:38:00 -0700 From: Lauren Jones To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: new guy -Reply Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi, new guy! Cheap is good! From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 12:20:42 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 12:08:08 PST From: "Sparks, Doug" To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Pumpkin preservation (maybe) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hey JD, Are you looking for a bridge? I have a couple if you are interested! Doug Sparks dsparks@ligand.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Pumpkin preservation (maybe) Author: halloween-l@netcom.com at gateway Date: 2/22/97 6:05 PM Since I have been so graciously labeled as a trouble-maker and to prove my interests extend beyond HHs let me through this monkey in the wrench.Since many of this list were inter- ested in preserving pumpkins this may turn out to be a poss- ibiliy in the future or it may just further the notion that I'm just plain nuts.At last years Halloween Trade Show there was a booth next to PumpkinMasters that had a device that the proprieter claimed to be the microwave equivalent of a freeze- dry machine.He claimed you could put your pre-carved pumpkin in this device and in just a short time period, would be completely freeze-dried and preserved indefinitely.I think it used liquid nitrogen.The cost? About $40,000.Haven't heard anything about this since.Anybody else who attended last year's show come across this display.(Btw I bought 3 of them, just haven't had a chance to try it out.Also bought some valuable Florida swampland from the same guy ;) JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 14:44:19 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 16:35:42 -0600 From: Chris Proctor <"cproctor(remove this part)"@flash.net> To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Converts/long post, well not so long anymor Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Spookyfx@aol.com wrote: > > I am new to this newsleter and the web, what is the proto call for sending > contributions? Uh, I think it's "if you have any contribution, just send it!" Welcome aboard! karen p cproctor@flash.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 15:44:28 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:32:14 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: hauntedattr@pelican.net (Oliver Holler) Subject: Re:Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hey Gerald! I'm new too, but I reckon I can still be just as friendly as everyone here! Welcome! Your bloody knife mention made me think of something I saw on TV a few nights ago on Letterman. This magician (forgot his name) did the same gag with a twist. He holds up the knife, runs it across his arm, back and forth, blood comes out and everyone goes "ewwwww". (Basic, fairly simple, but effective.) THEN, it got really good! He acted like he was really bearing down into his skin, and the illusion was that of the blade actually sinking at least half way into his arm! Again, simple use of a blade that is cut away in a semi-circular shape, allowing a comfortable cradle for the arm to fit into. But the two illusions combined were spectacular! Really caught the audience- and me- off guard! (Must have either switched the knife blades out quickly, or had a hollow handle and a retractable mechanism on the blade. It did seem to get a little longer when he jerked, and cut into himself.) Anyone else see it? :-) -Hope I didn't spoil anyone's appetite. Shame to waste that Big Mac. -But I hear they keep. Grim and Grinning, Oliver hauntedattr@pelican.net http://www.pelican.net/hauntedmagazine From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 16:34:30 1997 From: "Derek Godfrey" To: Subject: Re: new guy Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 19:35:46 -0500 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com ---------- > From: Gerald A Thoma > To: halloween-l@netcom.com > Subject: new guy > Date: Monday, February 24, 1997 1:08 PM > > Hello everyone, > > I finally got around to signing up to this list after wading through the > halloween-l archive I found on the web (all 2.4 megs!). I am really > excited about finally talking too all of you. > > Let me first tell a little about myself. I am a college student in MD > and I tend to get a little overzealous about halloween. Last year I > made a setup that I was rather proud of considering I don't like to > spend much money on this hobby.(Too many other hobbies ;)) Perhaps some > of these will appeal to the budget conscious among us I took some > ideas from the archive and decided to make the foam skeleton. I found a > cheap paper mache skull and and and added some detail with my airbrush. I > also made it so he was holding an antique looking lantern I had found at a > auction. Dressing him up in some clothes (black of course!) I included a > coat hanger that just came to his neck. This I attached to a a noose. I > taped some of those blinking eyes that you can find in stores and I ended > up with a hanged man that got the kids shouting.(I also put a small voodoo > doll I had in his front pocket, it had a noose around its neck too!):) > > I also made another dummy but tried something else with it. I got a > chair and put a large bucket on it. On this I put a cheap record player > with a long necked funnel taped to the turntable. I made a suitably > demonic head from paper mace made with newspaper and a glue of flour and > water. I added blinking eyes,vampire fangs, and one of those gross latex > tongues they have been recently seling. I topped it of with a bandana and > some cheap stingy hair that is sold in dollor stores. turn on the player > and you have a spinning headed person. > > The total cost for both of these was under $20. > > Well that all I've got to tell. I'll write more on some cheap and easy > ideas as they com to me. I apologize if this letter is long-winded. > > PS: I don't know if the idea has already been toss out to you, but has > anyone heard of a prop called a "bloody knife". It's a knife with a > resevoir of blood in the handle that flows from the blade. It's not > something I need right now but I could type up how to make it if you want > it. > > __________________ > > Gerald > Gthoma@polaris.umuc.edu You have plans for this knife? I could some help with that. Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- "There are those that say Life is an illusion, and Reality as we know it is merely a figment of our imagination." mailto:dgodfrey@interserv.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/2774 From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 16:52:14 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 16:45:03 -0800 From: rothe@edsug.com (Bill Rothe - Tekware sys mgr) Subject: Re:Welcome/bloody knife To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com *>Your bloody knife mention made me think of something I saw on TV a few *>nights ago on Letterman. This magician (forgot his name) did the same gag *>with a twist. He holds up the knife, runs it across his arm, back and *>forth, blood comes out and everyone goes "ewwwww". I've seen a couple of magicians do this one lately, most notably "The Amazing" Johnathan (who can get to be *really* obnoxious!) and Rudy Coby (the four-legged man). For Johnathan, its just part of his windex-drinking, psychic-Bambi stage act. For Rudy, it was the demonstration of his "LabCo Instant Healing" Spray..."Just spray it on, and its healed!" Rudy did a Knotts' Scary Farm a few years ago. Really great show. More funny than scary, but it got its point across. That brings up an interesting subject. For larger-scale haunts, do "scary magic shows" or "haunt shows" work??? I've seen several of these at the larger haunts, most notably that or Mark Kornhauser "Magic to Die For" and Rudy Coby.... I've seen a couple of books in catalogs about the old midnight horror shows they used to do in the 30's-40s.... Anybody got any info?? -bill. -- <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*> | "We do not stop playing because we've grown old. | | We grow old because we've stopped playing." | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| | rothe@ug.eds.com ** Opinions stated here are not those of EDS **| <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*> From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 17:41:37 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 19:34:31 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re:Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 06:32 PM 2/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >Hey Gerald! >I'm new too, but I reckon I can still be just as friendly as everyone here! >Welcome! >Your bloody knife mention made me think of something I saw on TV a few >nights ago on Letterman. This magician (forgot his name) did the same gag >with a twist. He holds up the knife, runs it across his arm, back and >forth, blood comes out and everyone goes "ewwwww". That was The Amazing Johnathan and The Butcher Knife Illusion. I've seen two versions available on the market, one U.S. made the other I believe French. Neither is cheap ($80.00 to $95.00 depending of the version) but are decently made and readily available. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 19:29:09 1997 From: ZTBJAZZ@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:23:21 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: new guy -Reply Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com what are you talking about? From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Feb 24 20:54:54 1997 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:50:09 -0500 (EST) From: Gerald A Thoma To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Bloody Knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com This is the process for making a knife that leaves a bloody trail when dragged across the skin. I got the instructions in conversation with another student. Since I don't have a drill press, I havn't gotten around to making one myself yet. I don't see any difficulties with the design though. Materials needed: 1/8"x 1" x 12" piece of aluminum wood for handle 3/32" polyethylene tube (medical supplier) small rubber squeazeable syringe (medical supplier) Drill press with 3/32"drill bit triangle and round file vice First thing that you do is cut the aluminum in the knife-shape you want (hunting, butcher). Then you take clamp the knife in a vice at an angle, blade pointing down and use a 3/32" drill to cut a hole through the blade. be very careful not to come out the side of the blade. ll Subject: Re: Converts/long post, well not so long anymor Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 03:19 AM 2/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >I am new to this newsleter and the web, what is the proto call for sending >contributions? I prefer cash, email me and I'll send you my address. :> Bill Lewis NSWC Carderock Division Code 6060 (301) 227-2742 lewisw@oasys.dt.navy.mil From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 25 05:02:29 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 07:51:37 +0000 From: Cliff Martin To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Ghostmasters- Was: Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Bill Rothe - Tekware sys mgr wrote: > > I've seen a couple of books in catalogs about the old midnight > horror shows they used to do in the 30's-40s.... > Bill, Ive got a copy of "Ghostmasters", a really great book describing those midnight 'spook' shows - which continued well into the '60s throughout most of America. (I went to one when I was *very* young) The book describes not only the artists, but the acts themselves. (Peppers Ghost is immortal...) There is a section on promotions and advertising (my current topic) which included advertising in newspaper 'help wanted' sections for ghosts needing work, and 'fright coupons', which you use to identify yourself if you faint. All in all, its a great book. Im sure Denny or John carry it (right?). Cliff cliff.martin@saralee.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 25 05:04:53 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:00:29 +0000 From: Cliff Martin To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Spookyfx@aol.com wrote: > > I did a "phantasmagoric show" (thats what it was called in the 30's) > at a local collage theater, It went over well with the bloodthristy > collage crowd. It is so much easer to rig the effects and pass > goverment inspections. > > But my first love (age 7 to NOW!) has always been an effects > heavy Haunted House! I tried to be a magician once in my life > but I am not a good performer, but I am a GREAT effects designer, > HH is the best outlet > for my skills..... Wow, you are definitely in the right place! Cliff From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 25 05:04:54 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 07:00:34 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re:Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 04:45 PM 2/24/97 -0800, you wrote in part: > > I've seen a couple of books in catalogs about the old midnight > horror shows they used to do in the 30's-40s.... > > Anybody got any info?? > It's Ghost Masters by Mark Walker ($29.95 retail). A very interesting book if you have an interest in famous stage magicians of the past. The various chapters cover the variety of magicians and the decades they performed. Many had gotten into spook shows as a way of expanding their audience. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares 630-830-9561 7:30 am. to 5:30 pm. CST fax 630-830-9577 24 hours From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 25 05:58:42 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 07:46:23 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Converts/long post, well not so long anymor Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 06:55 AM 2/25/97 EST, you wrote: >At 03:19 AM 2/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >>I am new to this newsleter and the web, what is the proto call for sending >>contributions? > >I prefer cash, email me and I'll send you my address. >Bill Lewis You never say much Bill, but you make up for it in absolute quality! :) Denny From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 25 05:59:12 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 07:45:02 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Ghostmasters- Was: Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 07:51 AM 2/25/97 +0000, you wrote about Ghost Masters: >All in all, its a great book. >Im sure Denny or John carry it (right?). >Cliff You betcha, thanks for the plug Cliff (speaking for both John and myself) . Tad at Harlequin, out in CA., can also get it I'm sure. Do watch what you pay for it, the cover price is $29.95, one of the dealers on the web has it for $39.95. People like Amazon Books may offer it at a discount and most libraries should be able to get it in. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 25 09:09:07 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:54:32 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: hauntedattr@pelican.net (Oliver Holler) Subject: All Spooky, All The Time Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi Andy, Between Haunted America (website), Haunted Attraction (magazine), and Halloween-L (mailing list), we're really becoming quite an extended family! (What's next, our own cable station???- 'All Spooky, All The Time') -I would trade my 'Lifetime' channel for it! :-) You wrote: > I'm interested in a sample copy of your publication! >(Although I'll admit I'm most likely to use the ideas for my >increasingly complex Halloween parties instead of a commercial haunt.) The magazine (a seperate entity- though for similiar enthusiasts), does focus more on 'attractions', 'amusements', 'events' and things related. This list seems like a 'party' crowd, and I'm sure you'll get ample inspiration for your own 'shin-digs' here! The Spring issue will be out and in the mail soon, for you and everyone else who requested a sample copy. Grim and Grinning, Oliver Holler hauntedattr@pelican.net http://www.pelican.net/hauntedmagazine From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 25 13:38:09 1997 From: "Derek Godfrey" To: Subject: Re: Re:Welcome/bloody knife Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:42:01 -0500 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com > From: Oliver Holler > To: halloween-l@netcom.com > Subject: Re:Welcome/bloody knife > Date: Monday, February 24, 1997 6:32 PM > > Hey Gerald! > I'm new too, but I reckon I can still be just as friendly as everyone here! > Welcome! > Your bloody knife mention made me think of something I saw on TV a few > nights ago on Letterman. This magician (forgot his name) did the same gag > with a twist. He holds up the knife, runs it across his arm, back and > forth, blood comes out and everyone goes "ewwwww". > > (Basic, fairly simple, but effective.) THEN, it got really good! He acted > like he was really bearing down into his skin, and the illusion was that of > the blade actually sinking at least half way into his arm! Again, simple > use of a blade that is cut away in a semi-circular shape, allowing a > comfortable cradle for the arm to fit into. But the two illusions combined > were spectacular! Really caught the audience- and me- off guard! > > (Must have either switched the knife blades out quickly, or had a hollow > handle and a retractable mechanism on the blade. It did seem to get a > little longer when he jerked, and cut into himself.) > Anyone else see it? :-) > -Hope I didn't spoil anyone's appetite. > > Shame to waste that Big Mac. -But I hear they keep. > > Grim and Grinning, > Oliver > > hauntedattr@pelican.net > http://www.pelican.net/hauntedmagazine I saw that and was really impressed myself. I was thinking it would sure be nice to have one of those for Halloween, but figured it would be way too expensive. It looked to me as if it were one knife, but how to get it to do both is amazing. I want one! Derek PS Do any of you guys have the plans for the Freddy glove that used to be sold in the back of Fangoria magazine (when the movies first came out...plans were like $5) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- "There are those that say Life is an illusion, and Reality as we know it is merely a figment of our imagination." mailto:dgodfrey@interserv.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/2774 From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 25 13:42:15 1997 From: "Derek Godfrey" To: Subject: Re: Re:Welcome/bloody knife Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:47:20 -0500 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com > From: milwiron@btprod.com > To: halloween-l@netcom.com > Subject: Re:Welcome/bloody knife > Date: Monday, February 24, 1997 8:34 PM > > At 06:32 PM 2/24/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Hey Gerald! > >I'm new too, but I reckon I can still be just as friendly as everyone here! > >Welcome! > >Your bloody knife mention made me think of something I saw on TV a few > >nights ago on Letterman. This magician (forgot his name) did the same gag > >with a twist. He holds up the knife, runs it across his arm, back and > >forth, blood comes out and everyone goes "ewwwww". > > That was The Amazing Johnathan and The Butcher Knife Illusion. I've seen > two versions available on the market, one U.S. made the other I believe > French. Neither is cheap ($80.00 to $95.00 depending of the version) but are > decently made and readily available. > Denny > That is alot cheaper than I thought they would be. Do you have a resource for these (and other similar props, such as retracting syringes)? I have been searching many years for a good source of these types props (metal, so they look real). Thanks, Derek From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 25 15:00:28 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:47:47 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Re:Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 04:47 PM 2/25/97 -0500, you wrote: >> That was The Amazing Johnathan and The Butcher Knife Illusion. I've seen >> two versions available on the market, one U.S. made the other I believe >> French. Neither is cheap ($80.00 to $95.00 depending of the version) but >are >> decently made and readily available. >> Denny >> >That is alot cheaper than I thought they would be. Do you have a resource >for these (and other similar props, such as retracting syringes)? I have >been searching many years for a good source of these types props (metal, so >they look real). Hi Derek, You can contact me at the below addresses and phone numbers. A picture of the knife is at . You can also touch base with John at Mr. Scary or Tad at Harlequin for the illusion. Local magic shops in your area will probably be stocking it also. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares 630-830-9561 7:30 am. to 5:30 pm. CST fax 630-830-9577 24 hours From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 25 16:05:22 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 17:47:46 -0600 From: Dave Hediger To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Derek Godfrey wrote: > > > From: milwiron@btprod.com > > To: halloween-l@netcom.com > > Subject: Re:Welcome/bloody knife > > Date: Monday, February 24, 1997 8:34 PM > > > > At 06:32 PM 2/24/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >Hey Gerald! > > >I'm new too, but I reckon I can still be just as friendly as everyone > here! > > >Welcome! > > >Your bloody knife mention made me think of something I saw on TV a few > > >nights ago on Letterman. This magician (forgot his name) did the same > gag > > >with a twist. He holds up the knife, runs it across his arm, back and > > >forth, blood comes out and everyone goes "ewwwww". > > > > That was The Amazing Johnathan and The Butcher Knife Illusion. I've seen > > two versions available on the market, one U.S. made the other I believe > > French. Neither is cheap ($80.00 to $95.00 depending of the version) but > are > > decently made and readily available. > > Denny > > > That is alot cheaper than I thought they would be. Do you have a resource > for these (and other similar props, such as retracting syringes)? I have > been searching many years for a good source of these types props (metal, so > they look real). > > Thanks, > > Derek Derek, You are askin' the right guy for that sort of stuff. If Denny can't get it for you, it can't be got. Denny goes out of his way to help anyone that wants it. Dave From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 25 18:23:42 1997 From: The Youngs To: "halloween-l@netcom.com" , "'Spookyfx@aol.com'" Subject: OT: Mail replies Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:14:34 -0500 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Depends on the mailer, Exchange has options for Reply to Sender in which case you only reply to the person who sent the message, and reply to all which will send a copy to the originator and also the list. I assume Eudora and Pegasus etc. have their own options. Jacqui From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 25 19:48:22 1997 From: sao@mit.edu To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: OT: Mail replies Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:41:08 EST Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >Depends on the mailer, Exchange has options for Reply to Sender in which >case you only reply to the person who sent the message, and reply to all >which will send a copy to the originator and also the list. I assume >Eudora and Pegasus etc. have their own options. True in many cases, but not in this particular instance. Actually, the way the Halloween-L mailing list is configured, it sets the "Reply-To" and "From" fields in the mail header to point back to the list itself, so you don't have these options. You need to explicitly change the headers in your reply to avoid replying to the entire list. :Andy Oakland sao@mit.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Feb 25 20:40:39 1997 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:33:08 -0800 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Greg Hope Subject: Re:Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 06:32 PM 2/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >(Must have either switched the knife blades out quickly, or had a hollow >handle and a retractable mechanism on the blade. It did seem to get a >little longer when he jerked, and cut into himself.) I didn't see the show you mention, but it reminds me of a gag I've read about. This involves an apparatus that is purchased from a magic shop, but could easily be built DIY. The trick I learned about is called The Gay Blade and has a block or frame with a hole through which a hand can be placed. The whole thing has a saw or cleaver attached to a hinge point on the hidden side. From the front you can see a hand protruding through and the blade swung down as if to cut off the hand. The blade is in two pieces and one section is retracted into the handle with a thumb trigger as the knife is brought down. I'm collecting a list of illusions that might be suitable for a HH an included this, even though I'm not crazy about torture illusions. The last I heard, this was manufactured by Abotts in Colon, MI, but someone may know more. Personally, I think that illusion definitely has a home in the HH. Such things as vanishing cabinets, torture illusions and escapes fit into the haunted theme quite well and, if well executed (pun intended), can bring a new level of surprise to the HH. Greg in Vista T (619) 945-4424 F (619) 726-2804 E ghope@mailhost.csusm.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 00:43:55 1997 From: "Derek Godfrey" To: Subject: Re: Re:Welcome/bloody knife Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 03:44:22 -0500 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com > From: Greg Hope > To: halloween-l@netcom.com > Subject: Re:Welcome/bloody knife > Date: Tuesday, February 25, 1997 11:33 PM > > At 06:32 PM 2/24/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >(Must have either switched the knife blades out quickly, or had a hollow > >handle and a retractable mechanism on the blade. It did seem to get a > >little longer when he jerked, and cut into himself.) > > I didn't see the show you mention, but it reminds me of a gag I've read > about. This involves an apparatus that is purchased from a magic shop, but > could easily be built DIY. The trick I learned about is called The Gay > Blade and has a block or frame with a hole through which a hand can be > placed. The whole thing has a saw or cleaver attached to a hinge point on > the hidden side. From the front you can see a hand protruding through and > the blade swung down as if to cut off the hand. The blade is in two pieces > and one section is retracted into the handle with a thumb trigger as the > knife is brought down. > > I'm collecting a list of illusions that might be suitable for a HH an > included this, even though I'm not crazy about torture illusions. The last > I heard, this was manufactured by Abotts in Colon, MI, but someone may know > more. > > Personally, I think that illusion definitely has a home in the HH. Such > things as vanishing cabinets, torture illusions and escapes fit into the > haunted theme quite well and, if well executed (pun intended), can bring a > new level of surprise to the HH. > > Greg in Vista > > T (619) 945-4424 > F (619) 726-2804 > E ghope@mailhost.csusm.edu I personally like the torture effects...always have. I have always been amazed by the Guillotine effect magicians have been using for some time. Still haven't figured out how they work. I saw one magician do this and his "head" even fell into the basket. Before he started he cut a head of lettuce in half with it! Anybody know the secret and wish to tell? I also was curious about the safest way to "hang" a person and it still look realistic and is really inexpensive to pull off. Thanks for any insight, Derek From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 03:37:19 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 05:28:13 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Re:Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 03:44 AM 2/26/97 -0500, you wrote: >I personally like the torture effects...always have. I have always been >amazed by the Guillotine effect magicians have been using for some time. >Still haven't figured out how they work. I saw one magician do this and >his "head" even fell into the basket. Please know that the large, French style, guillotine illusions as performed by magicians leave a lot to be desired safety wise and are not suited for the average rotation of actors in a haunted house nor will the average person have access to the engineering facilities to determine proper metals and hardware to use. None are designed or built to withstand dozens or hundreds of uses per day for weeks on end! The possibility of metal fatigue, bolts shearing, missed cues and such can easily lead to death or dismemberment. The chances of minor accidents, losing fingers and hands by simple miss-timed steps or accidental releases is huge. I've done quite a bit of research into guillotine illusions and from a mechanical engineering back ground I can say for certain the designs stink. Yes, you'll see them in haunted houses, it doesn't mean they're safe in the slightest sense of the word. Strongly consider the use of molded latex, or silver Lycra blades as have been discussed on this list in the past if you want a guillotine. Be very aware of pinch points in the falling mechanism, a hunk of wood holding a Lycra blade will still fall with enough force to chop off or break fingers and hands. You'll be asking your actors the equivalent of working in a sheet metal shop with shears and press brakes having no safety guards and little or no lighting at times. Finally, run your ideas past the insurance company covering your haunt. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares 630-830-9561 7:30 am. to 5:30 pm. CST fax 630-830-9577 24 hours From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 03:38:15 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 05:28:15 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re:Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 08:33 PM 2/25/97 -0800, you wrote in part: >I'm collecting a list of illusions that might be suitable for a HH an >included this, even though I'm not crazy about torture illusions. The last >I heard, this was manufactured by Abotts in Colon, MI, but someone may know >more. Paul Osborne's book Haunted Illusions is a nice collection, I have heard of at least one or two other books/collections being put together on illusions suitable for haunt work. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 04:26:58 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 04:23:11 -0800 From: Bob Andrews To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com milwiron@btprod.com wrote: > Please know that the large, French style, guillotine illusions as performed > by magicians leave a lot to be desired safety wise and are not suited for > the average rotation of actors in a haunted house nor will the average > person have access to the engineering facilities to determine proper metals > and hardware to use. > > None are designed or built to withstand dozens or hundreds of uses per day > for weeks on end! The possibility of metal fatigue, bolts shearing, missed > cues and such can easily lead to death or dismemberment. The chances of > minor accidents, losing fingers and hands by simple miss-timed steps or > accidental releases is huge. > > I've done quite a bit of research into guillotine illusions and from a > mechanical engineering back ground I can say for certain the designs stink. > Yes, you'll see them in haunted houses, it doesn't mean they're safe in the > slightest sense of the word. > > Strongly consider the use of molded latex, or silver Lycra blades as have > been discussed on this list in the past if you want a guillotine. Be very > aware of pinch points in the falling mechanism, a hunk of wood holding a > Lycra blade will still fall with enough force to chop off or break fingers > and hands. You'll be asking your actors the equivalent of working in a sheet > metal shop with shears and press brakes having no safety guards and little > or no lighting at times. > I would *really* love to build a guillotine prop, I found a wonderful drawing of one on the internet. However, I afraid that something horrible might happen. Last halloween, I smashed my thumb when a spacer block 2 x 4 18" fell from a height of 12". I'd hate to think what would have happened if it fell from a distance of 8 feet. -- Bob Andrews bandrews@inreach.com http://www.anaserve.com/~BoBandrews From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 04:59:53 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 06:55:26 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 05:47 PM 2/25/97 -0600, you wrote: > You are askin' the right guy for that sort of stuff. If Denny can't >get it for you, it can't be got. > > Denny goes out of his way to help anyone that wants it. > > Dave Thanks Dave, you're a loyal friend and a heck of a liar. ;) The truth of the matter is, it beats working. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 05:00:36 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 06:55:29 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Magic Illusions/was bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I wanted to mention... and forgot to in my replay about illusion books for haunted houses that most magic illusions do not fit into the time and space requirements of an active haunted house. Many illusions, even ones presented as good for haunts require way too much time to present to be suitable for the average, trying to make money, haunted house. Also, many were originally designed for theatrical stage work where most of the audience is looking slightly down at the stage from a distance much further than available in a haunt. Angles, presentation and staging is everything. In the hands of poorly trained actors illusions can be a disaster. Never think for a minute that barely trained $4.25 an hour actors or volunteers are going to pull off Thurston's Sawing A Woman or Buzz Saw Illusions like he did. Dave Kiihne on the list can hopefully add much more to this. Presented properly, larger illusions can be suitable for every hour or half hour presentations to crowds outside, waiting to go into the house. Outside the house, space, timing and staging can be better accounted for. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 06:10:20 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:05:11 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 04:23 AM 2/26/97 -0800, Bob wrote: >I would *really* love to build a guillotine prop, I found a wonderful >drawing of one on the internet. However, I afraid that something >horrible might happen. Last halloween, I smashed my thumb when a spacer >block 2 x 4 18" fell from a height of 12". I'd hate to think what >would have happened if it fell from a distance of 8 feet. Hey Bob, Couldn't agree more with wanting a guillotine... which is what started me on my quest. I had great hopes but have decided to move on to other projects. I haven't seen one French styled illusion that shows a head drop I would put a living neck into without a full re-engineering of it. Not one has given consideration to a mechanical failure leading to a disaster, directly or indirectly. Many stop the steel blade with steel stops bolted or welded together. No specs on the bolts or welds are ever mentioned, I imagine because the designer figured hardware store class 2 bolts and his neighbor's Sear's buzz box welder was good enough. I have also not seen one that tries to absorb and distribute the shock of the falling blade in a correct manner. "Safety" latches shown to hold the blade are worthless. There are head choppers that do not feature a head drop, one of the most famous is a Lester Lake design. These are often much better designs and depend on the magician pushing the blade down by hand. Lester Lake's, in the proper hands is safe. There are also large French styled guillotines that don't have a head drop and are similar in principle to Lester Lake's. Most of these are also quite safe by design and can be bought for under $700.00. The bottom line- history is full of magicians who died prematurely from small mechanical failures in their death defying illusions. (and they did one or two shows a day not 50 to 100) I think I've rattled on enough about this, Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 06:59:51 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 06:59:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Re:Welcome/bloody knife To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com THE best idea I have seen for safety in a guillotine is the use of a stretched silver Spandex piece as the blade. It looks silvery and real, yet it is only cloth..... [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 07:03:19 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 06:55:26 -0700 Subject: Re: Re:Welcome/bloody knife To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Derek, Email me for the answer to the guillotine effect. There are several methods.... Harry [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 08:16:19 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 06:19:29 -0600 From: DJ To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Denny wrote: > Paul Osborne's book Haunted Illusions is a nice collection, I have heard of > at least one or two other books/collections being put together on illusions > suitable for haunt work. Oh, my! That *did* get my attention! Anybody know more about these books? It's only eight months til the big night, and my poor "idea gears" are mighty rusty. DJ, who hopes her plan to do things early this year is not just an illusion From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 09:03:57 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 08:28:03 PST From: oliver@nemesis.saic.com (Thomas W Oliver) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Re:Welcome/bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com > ... Anybody know the secret and wish to tell? I also > was curious about the safest way to "hang" a person and it still look > realistic and is really inexpensive to pull off. What we have done in the past is to make a body harness and attach the rope to that. The 'noose' rides up & down on the rope freely, so you can put it around the neck and pull taunt without choking the hanger (or is that hangie?). Look around for old parachute harnesses. Either a body harness or a shoulder harness will start to be uncomfortable after awhile, and will cut off circulation. ANY method that employs a real noose should *NEVER* be used on a real person. The risk of personal injury is too great. Be sure to work out as many problems as you can in advance. I.E. what are you going to hang them from? Is it strong enough to hold 200+ lb person who is thrashing around? How long are you going to hang there? What about pottie breaks? Do you have a spotter to work with the hangie? Do you have a 'codeword' or hand signal that means 'CUT ME LOOSE *NOW*!!!' ??? (Since it's hard to say: "please cut me down now, I can't breath and I'm dieing", and your audience is expecting the hangie to say: "Help me; Save me; I'm dieing!; *choke* *gasp* " ) THomas THomas W Oliver |"Carpe Denarii - 'seize the dough' (TWO)" Network Security Officer | telephone: 619 458-2175 Science Applications International Corp.| fax: 619 535-7860 4110 Campus Point Court MS G2 | e-mail: oliver@nemesis.saic.com San Diego, CA 92121 | e-mail: Thomas.W.Oliver@saic.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 09:43:39 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:36:49 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Illusions/Secrets Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hey All, I've already responded privately to a couple of requests for information on magician's guillotines and thought I better post something to the general population. I have been involved with magic on various levels since I was a kid. I do not personally agree that the secrets of how illusions work should be kept off public lists such as this and made my point last year when the subject came up. But, (and that's a big "but"!) I have respect for practicing magicians and illusionists and will not discuss illusion details and secrets unless that information is already generally known, as in Pepper's Ghost or The Blue Room. Over the course of modern magic it has become acceptable to buy a book or effect from a magic shop to get the solutions and secrets, it's not acceptable to ask how it's done or tell how it's done. Again, I don't necessarily agree with that... I do fully respect the feelings, beliefs and practices of the magic community that has entertained me over the years. Denny PS. As a younger person, the magic hobby kept me away from questionable women, foul language, motorcycles, alcohol, "other" substances, tattoo parlors and run-ins with the law. (not hardly, but wouldn't that make a good opening line for my headstone?) ;) B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 10:35:25 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:26:25 -0600 From: "E. Wolfgang A. Poe" To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Magic Illusions/was bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com > haunted houses that most magic illusions do not fit into the time and space > requirements of an active haunted house. This is true (with the exception of the old, static "carnival displays). Most illusions take between 5 to ten minutes, with many even longer. Ever counted how many illusions are in Copperfield's show? Usually around 10-14. Also, to present them well takes months of dedicated practice. > In the hands of poorly trained actors illusions can > be a disaster. Or poorly trained magicians. If a magician vol. to help, ask to see a tape of their illusion performences. A resturant magician may not be able to do illusions properly. -- Wolfgang Poe Gothic Magician http://www.wwisp.com/~raven/index.html From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 11:01:17 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:52:41 +0000 From: Cliff Martin To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Illusions/Secrets Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com milwiron@btprod.com wrote: > unless that information is already generally known, as in Pepper's Ghost or The Blue Room. > Ok, Im curious! what's a Blue Room? Is that like a 'dot room'? Cliff cliff.martin@saralee.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 12:30:16 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 15:12:22 EST To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Bill Lewis Subject: Re: Illusions/Secrets Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 11:36 AM 2/26/97 -0600, you wrote: >Denny >PS. >As a younger person, the magic hobby kept me away from questionable women, >foul language, motorcycles, alcohol, "other" substances, tattoo parlors and >run-ins with the law. ;) > So I guess you're saying you weren't a very good magician. :> Bill Lewis NSWC Carderock Division Code 6060 (301) 227-2742 lewisw@oasys.dt.navy.mil From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 12:30:23 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 14:15:01 -0600 From: David Kiihne To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: RE: Magic Illusions/was bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >>> 02/26/97 06:55am >>> >Dave Kiihne on the list can hopefully add much more to this. >Denny Oh, sure! Cover all the good information in your posts and THEN put me on the spot to contribute something! *sigh* ;) (Methinks you're also going to regret using the words "much more" when soliciting my contribution. ) Most of my experience is in designing "normal" (non-Halloween) illusions for theatrical presentations, but maybe I can come up with something useful. For Halloween-specific concerns, I would defer to the judgement and experience of other members of the list like Denny, Don, Doug, Stu, Jim, Harry, ...Happy, Doc, Sneezy.. oops, wrong list. I have a little checklist I go through whenever I'm working on a new illusion idea. Failure to satisfy any one of these requirements is often grounds for bagging the project altogether. With some modifications, this list may be useful in adding features to haunts. My (far from authoritative) list, in order of importance is: 1. SAFETY!!!!! Above all else, you MUST ensure the safety of... a. The audience b. The crew (on- and off-stage) c. Yourself (or the primary performer) d. The audience's property e. The theatre/stage itself (especially if not owned by you) f. Your personal props/equipment If any of the above cannot be completely satisfied, go back to square one - the development process goes no further. Even after the development is complete (opening night, for example), if anything changes to compromise these conditions (_especially_ the first 3!) the trick is out and stays out until the safety concerns are addressed. 2. Entertainment Value (or - for haunts - Spook, Scare, and/or Gore Value) Every illusion needs a specific reason for being included in the program. Usually the purpose is to entertain the audience. If it can't do that, it's out. If the reason for including the effect is to spook or scare or gross out the audience and it indeed meets that goal, then it's good to go for this case. If, on the other hand, the best reason you can give is "Well, it took me 6 months to learn that move" or "The prop looks really cool - and cost a ton o' dough" or "Well, I saw this other guy do it once and...", then that's not good enough and you need to seriously re-evaluate your motivations for including it. (Sorry, I'm slipping into one of my favorite magician rants here; but I think you get the idea.) 3. Suitability for Venue. The presentation must comply with any constraints imposed by the performing location or environment. If there are specific time or space requirements to be met, meet them. ("Hi, how ya doin'?") In a haunt, for example, it is not appropriate to perform a 4-minute routine in a room where the audience expected to spend and average of only 90 seconds. In throughput analysis, we call this a bottleneck; in the audience, they call it a pain in the butt. Also, if you have only an 8-by-8 room to perform in, you are not going to make a Hearse levitate and disappear in mid-air. 4. Deceptiveness. (Amazing how low on the list this is for a magician, eh?) If the performance, performers, or performing environment make it impossible to do the trick without revealing the method, then don't do it. ("It ain't a trick, if it don't trick 'em!") If you enjoy magic enough to want to include something magical in your attraction, please don't do the art the disservice of revealing its secrets and trivializing it into the category of "clever little puzzles." Also, please note the position of this requirement in the list relative to the position of entertainment. My personal definition of a magician (which has been derived from and influenced by the writings of many magicians before me) is that he or she is "one who entertains through deception." Entertaining the audience is the goal - and, hence, the more important of the two. The art of deception is merely a tool used to achieve that goal. This personal philosophy is reflected in the order of this list. ("OK, Dave... Inhale already, will ya?!") As I said, my experience is more in non-Halloween magic, so this list may need some modifications to be more suitable for application to haunts. I believe the order and contents of the list are sound, especially the supreme importance of safety, but if your experience demonstrates any inaccuracy or incompleteness... TELL ME! (Politely, of course) I'm always eager to learn more and if you feel you could teach me a thing or two, please do so. Beyond the priorities list, perhaps the best advice I can offer when adding magic (or anything for that matter) to your haunt is to remember your audience. Remember who they are and what they will expect or even need while attending your attraction/display. Obviously, you cannot use effects intended for an expected audience of college students in a drunken stupor when your actual audience will be pre-teens on a major sugar rush. You shouldn't use a trick or prop designed to be seen from a minimum distance of 20 feet when your audience is only 2 feet away. Don't do the ritual human sacrifice routine on the night your church's youth group visits. Don't make them stand around and back up the crowd flow for the rest of the haunt just to see your little routine. Well, I think that's more than enough. (Stop cheering.) As I said, defer to the more experienced list members for definitive answers. These are only my opinions as a magician who's interested in Halloween. Besides, even if you don't agree with anything I said, you can always save this message to reread the next time you have insomnia. :) Any questions? ...Other than "Where's the caffeine?" that is. Dave - daveki@nebfef.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 13:02:20 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 14:49:29 -0600 From: David Kiihne To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Illusions/Secrets [Banter, not necessarily witty] Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >>> Bill Lewis 02/26/97 02:12pm >>> >At 11:36 AM 2/26/97 -0600, you wrote: >>Denny >>PS. >>As a younger person, the magic hobby kept me away from questionable women, >>foul language, motorcycles, alcohol, "other" substances, tattoo parlors and >>run-ins with the law. ;) >> >So I guess you're saying you weren't a very good magician. >:> >Bill Lewis Dang! Them questionable women were the reason I got into magic in the first place! That "Marshall Brodein" guy LIED to me! ;) Dave From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 13:17:50 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:04:54 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Illusions/Secrets Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 01:52 PM 2/26/97 +0000, you wrote: >milwiron@btprod.com wrote: >> unless that information is already generally known, as in Pepper's Ghost or The Blue Room. >> > >Ok, Im curious! what's a Blue Room? Is that like a 'dot room'? >Cliff >cliff.martin@saralee.net > List member and illusion guru Dave Kiihne wrote an excellent description of it last year, it should be in the archives or maybe Dave could do it again. If not, I saved Dave's post and will repost it with his permission. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 13:22:42 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:16:34 -0800 From: rothe@edsug.com (Bill Rothe - Tekware sys mgr) Subject: Re: Illusions/Secrets To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com *>At 11:36 AM 2/26/97 -0600, you wrote: *> *>Denny *>PS. *>As a younger person, the magic hobby kept me away from questionable women, *>foul language, motorcycles, alcohol, "other" substances, tattoo parlors and *>run-ins with the law. ;) So you traded all that for: female contortionist assistants, arcane language, disappearing motorcycles,flash paper, fog machines, magic shops and run-ins with the IBM (not the bigblue kind, the other kind). What's the difference??? ;) -bill. -- Everybody Sing! "Its a world of nightmares, a world of fears. Its a world of hor-ror, a world of tears. There's so much that can scare, that its time to beware, its a dark world after all...." ----------------------------------------------------------------- rothe@ug.eds.com ** Opinions stated here are not those of EDS ** From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 13:54:25 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:40:36 -0600 From: David Kiihne To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Illusions/Secrets Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >>> 02/26/97 03:04pm >>> >List member and illusion guru Dave Kiihne wrote an excellent description of >it last year, it should be in the archives or maybe Dave could do it again. >If not, I saved Dave's post and will repost it with his permission. >Denny Go for it, Denny! I'd save you the trouble and repost it myself, but I can't access my copy at the moment. For some reason my Novell-based email program doesn't want to recognize the Novell-based network on which my archive is stored. Grrrr. Dave From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 15:03:59 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:57:24 -0600 From: David Kiihne To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Illusions/Secrets (Found it!) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Finally got to my archive! (Yippee!) Here's a copy of the post Denny mentioned. Edited with square brackets (These things "[ ]") to avoid confusion. --------------------------------------------------------- For those interested, the Blue Room illusion (a.k.a. Metempsychosis) [was] performed on "Hidden Secrets of Magic" which [aired] on NBC Saturday, May 18, [1996,] at 8:00pm EST. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time this classic (over 100 years old) illusion has been performed on U.S. television. For those of you wondering what exactly the Blue Room illusion is, I would consider it a "cousin" of the Pepper's Ghost illusion described in detail in the archives and recently mentioned again on the list. The primary difference in the methods is that Pepper's Ghost uses a stationary plate of glass which goes across a room at an angle and Blue Room uses a moving plate that is (approximately) one-third mirrored, one-third clear, and the middle third is a transition area with vertical strips of mirroring the get progressively thinner as they get closer to the clear part. ("HUH?!?!") Let me try to clarify with a performance example. When viewing Pepper's Ghost, the audience could see a live scene with translucent ghost-like images mixed in (the ghosts being reflected off the glass from a hidden area to the side - and/or above/below). If the choreography is tight enough they could see a live person dance with a ghost (I think Disney shows a ballroom full of such couples). (Hopefully you're understanding what I mean; I'm trying to keep this under novel length.) In a Blue Room, the audience could see an empty room and suddenly a real live person just materializes right there in front of them. Here the mirrored part would conceal the person at first by reflecting the side of the room as the back and then the person is revealed as the mirror is pulled back until the completely clear glass part is in front of the person - allowing the audience to see him/her. I apologize if this description only confuses you even more. I'm sure things will be much clearer after watching the show. It will also be interesting to see the discussions in this group on how well this principle would work in Halloween displays. (Bigger budget than the "convert the front yard into a graveyard" type of display. ...That's not a putdown; just a pathetic attempt at a classification.) Along these lines, I have already begun design work on an enhancement to the recently-discussed Vampire Illusion ("reflection-less" wall-mounted mirror) which would allow the Vampire to have a reflection and then lose it at will. (He/She disappears in the mirror but is still standing in front of it.) And yes, I realize that that particular ability does not match perfectly with the classic vampire traits. I don't care; it would look really cool!! :) I'll try to finish the write-up of the Vampire idea in my copious free time (ROTFL), and send it to the list so some of the experts can pick out the flaws and perhaps help me figure out ways to make it more affordable (and therefore usable by more readers). [Snipped another reminder about the TV special to avoid confusion.] (Still awake?) Dave Kiihne (daveki@nebfef.com) --------------------------------------------------------- BTW, the special did contain a beautiful example of the Blue Room illusion which illustrated the principle far better than I could describe with mere words. (and also served to only increase my admiration for the amazing talents of Jim Steinmeyer) They re-aired the special a few months ago so there may be hope of seeing it again sometime as a rerun. (I'll pass the air date on to the list if I find out about any other showings.) BTW, thanks for offering to post it for me, Denny! Hopefully my giving you the green light and then sending it myself won't result in a duplicate post. If this wasn't the post you had in mind, go ahead and forward the other one to the list. This was the only one I could find talking about the Blue Room. Thanks. Dave - daveki@nebfef.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 15:06:00 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:37:10 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Illusions/banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >*>At 11:36 AM 2/26/97 -0600, you wrote: >*> >*>Denny >*>PS. >*>As a younger person, the magic hobby kept me away from questionable women, >*>foul language, motorcycles, alcohol, "other" substances, tattoo parlors and >*>run-ins with the law. ;) > > So you traded all that for: > > female contortionist assistants, arcane language, disappearing > motorcycles,flash paper, fog machines, magic shops and run-ins with > the IBM (not the bigblue kind, the other kind). > Hi Bill, Naw, I was lying. I stunk at magic and turned to all that stuff as a cry for help. I still depend on questionable women, motorcycles, an occasional beverage, and tattoo parlors, I just don't need help anymore. ;) Denny From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 15:58:27 1997 To: "Halloween Newsgroup" From: "Bruce & Tammy Miller" Subject: Other Spooky Fx Sites Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 18:53:54 PST Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Halloween-l archives and Phantasmechanics are neat sites. Are there any other sites out there with props or effects for a HH that you can build yourself! I'm new to the list, but I've been lurking for a couple of weeks. I 've seen posts from people with lots of HH experience,plus those who go all out on home decor. There is a spirit (pun intended) of helpfulness(?) that is great! tbmiller@aisnet.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 17:30:43 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:25:37 -0600 (CST) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re:IIlusions Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Using illusions in a HH can be tricky (no pun intended).Most illusions that are described in books are meant for the stage and require a significant amount of set-up time that would be impracticle in a haunt setting.However you can use the time constraint to your advantage for simpler illusions that would never work on stage.For example in a previous post I describ- ed a room in our haunt called the "chop shop".While this may sound like a gory room it really wasn't but rather an illusion. Through the simple use of a mirror (under the table) and a prop leg (plus a strobe) we were able to create the "illusion" that one of actors got their leg chopped off.This particular trick would never cut it in a magicians stage presentation but in a haunt where there really is no time to focus on the set it produced the proper effect. Incidently this years "chop shop" is going to feature a guillot- ine.The guillotine will not use a real actors head but rather a prop head.If we set it up properly it should appear to be real but the design should be totally safe.If it works I'll post the instructions since this is a design we came up with and won't infringe on any "magician's secret". JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 18:29:59 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:03:49 -0600 (CST) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Other Spooky Fx Sites Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com tbmiller wrote: >Halloween-l archives and Phantasmechanics are neat sites.Are there any > other sites out there with props or effects for a HH that > you can build yourself! Unfotunately there are none that I know of.There are some instructional books and videos out there on the subject that you can purchase from either John at Mr.Scary Productions or Denny at Terror By Design.One book that you can probably find at your local library is Thurston James's "Handbook for Propbuilders".While this book doesn't deal with halloween props specifically it by far the best book out there that deals with building props yourself.Many of the ideas given can be used in both home and commercial haunts.If you can't find it at the library I think both Denny and John carry them. If there is a specific prop or effect you are looking for you shouldn't need to go very far.All you need to do is ask.There is undoubtedly members of this list that have either done it before or can figure out how. JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 18:43:31 1997 From: Spookyfx@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:31:37 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Illusions/Secrets Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com How do I get into the "archives"???? I would love to spend time "catching up"! From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 18:49:58 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:42:19 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: hauntedattr@pelican.net (Oliver Holler) Subject: Re: Illusions/Secrets Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Denny wrote: > I do not personally agree that the secrets of how illusions work should >be kept >off public lists > But, (and that's a big "but"!) I will not discuss illusion details and >secrets unless that >information is already generally known, as in Pepper's Ghost or The Blue Room. There is something to be said about keeping magic 'magical'. -Oliver hauntedattr@pelican.net http://www.pelican.net/hauntedmagazine From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 18:57:38 1997 From: Spookyfx@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:47:48 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Magic Illusions/was bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I don’t agree that the old stage magic tricks cant be a good source of illusions for a HH. I am a magician and have been using such for 20 years. Every effect in the Disney haunted mansion came from old stage magic acts including the pepper’s ghost and the seance room. There are no bad tricks just bad presentations. You must create the proper setting for the trick to fit in and work under the conditions of a haunted house....sorry to disagree, but this is my area expertise... (using magic tricks for Haunted houses I mean....) From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 20:47:36 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:34:45 -0500 From: Allan Clifford To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Magic Illusions/was bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Spookyfx@aol.com wrote: > > I don’t agree that the old stage magic tricks cant be a good source of > illusions for a HH. I am a magician and have been using such for 20 years. > Every effect in the Disney haunted mansion came from old stage magic acts > including the pepper’s > ghost and the seance room. There are no bad tricks just bad presentations. > You must create the proper setting for the trick to fit in and work under the > conditions > of a haunted house....sorry to disagree, but this is my area expertise... > (using magic tricks for Haunted houses I mean....) I am VERY interested in using a couple of the Haunted Mansion type effects this year! Can you share some of the ones you use that I could possibly use in my Haunted Attraction? My attraction is both in and outdoors. Thanks, Allan From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 21:58:44 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:56:04 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Ysengrin Werewolf Subject: Re: Magic Illusions/was bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 06:55 AM 2/26/97 -0600, Denny wrote: > I wanted to mention... and forgot to in my replay about illusion books for >haunted houses that most magic illusions do not fit into the time and space >requirements of an active haunted house. [snip] > Presented properly, larger illusions can be suitable for every hour or half >hour presentations to crowds outside, waiting to go into the house. Outside >the house, space, timing and staging can be better accounted for. That's what we do. There are a few Pepper's Ghost type effects inside the house, but we stage the larger (and more dangerous) illusions outside on a stage built for the purpose, as part of a half-hour show every hour. Ysengrin Werewolf (aka Silvermane) Member Verdun Manor pack http://www.webcom.com/verdun/verdun.html From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 22:08:06 1997 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 22:23:31 -0600 From: The Proctors To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Illusions/Secrets Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Spookyfx@aol.com wrote: > > How do I get into the "archives"???? > I would love to spend time "catching up"! Be prepared to spend a LOT of time!!! karen From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Feb 26 23:53:30 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 02:47:34 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Re: Magic Illusions/was bloody knife-banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com (snip) >If a magician vol. to help, ask to see a >tape of their illusion performences. A resturant magician may not be >able to do illusions properly. > > >-- >Wolfgang Poe >Gothic Magician >http://www.wwisp.com/~raven/index.html > This is off-topic a bit but I thought I would chuck it up. There was a magician that specialized in "up-close" magic I talked to on many occasion. I never asked "how" his illusions were done, nor would I want to know, but it baffles me to this day: The illusion was him doing wonderful "up-close" astounding things at our table, then he complained he had something in his shoe. He took it off held it up above the table and a HUGE rock fell from it! I mean this rock could in NO WAY fit in the shoe but man if it didn't fall out of it. It astounded me every time I went to see the show. No flashes, no smoke, and a REAL rock! All his stuff was done right in front of you. My hat goes off to all that have dedicated their time to follow in the path. John. ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Feb 27 00:10:06 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:56:02 -0600 (CST) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Magic Illusions/was bloody knife Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 Spookyfx@aol.com wrote: > I don’t agree that the old stage magic tricks cant be a good source of > illusions for a HH. I am a magician and have been using such for 20 years. > Every effect in the Disney haunted mansion came from old stage magic acts > including the pepper’s > ghost and the seance room. There are no bad tricks just bad presentations. > You must create the proper setting for the trick to fit in and work under the > conditions > of a haunted house....sorry to disagree, but this is my area expertise... > (using magic tricks for Haunted houses I mean....)> I didn't mean to imply that old stage tricks couldn't be used, only that it can be difficult given the size and time constraints in most haunt enviroments.Disney has the luxury of having a very large haunt and the ability to control their audiences line of sight.In fact one can argue that Disney's haunt is really a stage and the audience is moved around this stage.In most haunts the performers and patrons share the same stage and the patrons movements/sight lines are much more variable.I've seen haunts that have "stage shows" outside their haunts and these are a great way to entertain people waiting in line.However alot of these illusions could not be simply taken off the stage and placed in a room where the audience is merely a few feet away.There are many illusions that can work in a limited amount of space (Peppers Ghost being one) but many others would be very difficult to pull off. I applaud any haunt that incorporates magic/illusions as part of their attraction.These effects take alot of time,energy and creativity to bring together and shows the operator's committment to produce a high quality attraction. JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Feb 27 05:35:37 1997 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:32:35 -0600 From: DJ To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Magic Illusions/seance room Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Spookyfx@aol.com wrote: > Every effect in the Disney haunted mansion came from old stage magic acts including the pepper’s ghost and the seance room. It is with great shame that I admit I'm one of the few people in the world whose never been to Disneyworld or Disneyland. The "seance room" sounds intriguing. Can somebody please describe it a little for us culturally deprived people? DJ, who can't understand why her parents might have shunned long car trips with her as a child From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Feb 27 05:55:47 1997 From: enchanted_sales@juno.com To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: catalog? Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:48:59 EST Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hello!!! I love your web site...My names is Ron Stekeur and I am a salesmen for several companies that produce, custom build, and manufacture props, full scenes, and faceds for Haunted dark attractions. I would like to send you a free mailer if you would like to see it please e-mail back at: enchanted_sales@juno.com and I will be happy to send it to you!!! My snail mail address is : Rooute 2 , Box 578-a, Natural Bridge, Va 24578. My phone is (540)- 291-2353. Please feel free to call. I believe that you truly enjoy a look at our stuff ... Thank you for your time and be sure to included the right mailing address and phone to contact you? OK Have a good day and thank you. Ron Stekeur Account Repersenative From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Feb 27 07:35:22 1997 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Jim Kadel Subject: Re:IIlusions (real head prop) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:26:10 -0700 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I suggest (if you can afford the $99 cost of the Safe-T-Man dummy) the head of this dummy is one of the best for a "real head" prop. Jim Kadel (jimk@rica.net) 2/27/97 ============================================================ >Incidently this years "chop shop" is going to feature a guillot- >ine.The guillotine will not use a real actors head but rather a >prop head.If we set it up properly it should appear to be real >but the design should be totally safe.If it works I'll post the >instructions since this is a design we came up with and won't