I'm writing this as me, not a Wolf Studios rep. I'm also talking only about the idea of the HAA, not who may be doing the work of creating it. >I'm willing to suspend that >distrust if it will help assure the long-term survival of the industry >that I've grown to love over the past twelve years. HA's will always exist in some form or another. The market will determine if those that are operated as businesses (rather than for fun or charities) will survive from year to year. I do not want to homogenize haunts into a bland (but economically safe) sameness. >A Haunted Attraction Association (HAA) that provides a "Seal of >Approval" for member Haunted Attractions. What does the Seal mean? It >means that you meet specified requirements that the membership of the >HAA has defined concerning fire protection, safety, ethics, etc.... You'll have to publicize the HAA heavily to do any good with the visiting patrons or even the media. Look at the IAAPA; it's of great use to it's members in the amusement business, but is almost unknown outside of that business. Are we talking about rating HAA members (G, PG, R type)? Are we talking about standards for what subjects can and cannot be in member haunts? Sufficient on-site parking? Maximum wait in line to get in? If I'm a patron, that's the sort of guarantees I'd want if I saw the HAA seal in advertising. From the operation of a haunt, most of those 'wants' would be difficult or impossible to meet. (I don't know how many times I've been told that "you should do something about this line" from patrons waiting to go in. Other than trying to keep the people in line entertained there's not much you can do.) By simply opening to the public, you are expected to have a certain level of safety. Unless the HAA makes it well known that they have higher standards, the 'seal of approval' doesn't mean much. And how much liability would fall on the HAA and it's members if it _does_ inspect and require higher standards? >And also - they've paid their dues. My first reaction is that this is the reason for forming a HAA - so it can make money for someone. It would need to be operated as a non-profit organization. And why would a patron care if my dues were paid up or not? What range of dues are we talking here? $10? $200? $2,500? A percentage of gross? >And what would the "Approved" Haunted Attraction get? >Extremely lowered insurance rates. I think 'extremely' is overly optimistic, but an association or co-op would be able to get better rates. >A HAA Buyer who can carry clout with wholesalers. >Mass buying of standard props at less-than-wholesale. >Someone who can buy large props to be rented to member HA's. >An insider's jump on "deals" in the industry. Hmmm . . . this part sounds good at first, but the strength of HA's is their diversity. If we all have the same props, masks, and effects, then our patrons lose. I'd also question having the HAA as a middleman; either the costs of maintaining such a service are passed on directly or 'hidden' in a large annual membership fee. Also, most of the demand for rented props is going to be at the same time - and there are the costs of repair and storage of those props when they're _not_ being rented out the other ten months. It sounds like a possible opportunity for some entrepreneur(s) to set up a business or a co-op to do this, but I don't have any desire to make it part of a HAA (or to finance the start-up of such a business). We have enough trouble getting orders out of the manufacturers on time without the HAA standing between us; and we'd rather make most of our stuff ourselves. >A fire code developed exclusively for HA's. Whee! Don't hold your breath. And, honestly, the existing national fire code is not that difficult to work with. I'd much rather err on the side of safety. And if you're talking about strengthening the UFC in regards to HA - the existing UFC works pretty well. A plus that wasn't mentioned would be a stronger voice for rider/patron responsibility laws - if they do something after being warned _not_ to, they carry more of the liability for their actions. >A voice in the industry. To whom? Or are you talking about a wider definition of industry than just HA's? >Small business loans? The HAA could not itself be issuing SBA loans. Assistance is setting up the paperwork could be done, but there are many agencies now that do just that. The seasonal nature of a HA makes it difficult to get SBA loans in any case. Another good point not brought up would be assistance with the specific problems of HA's not usually addressed - assistance in getting rights for use of music or characters, how to make an effective commercial, how to get and keep sponsors, etc. >Someone who can represent the entire industry to the media. This one makes me particularly uneasy. There's far too wide a spread in HA's for a single voice to really make sense, and it's far too easy to abuse. >Its a start, okay? Your comments are more than welcome. It sounds like you're suggesting something more along the lines of a Haunted Consultants Association - similar to existing professional Engineer or Architect associations. As that it's a pretty good idea, so that anyone who wants to _buy_ a haunt (or have one designed) can know that the people designing and/or building it are trustworthy and are recognized by their peers as being knowledgeable. That's not to say that the 'mom & pop' haunts shouldn't share information, or support each other to keep from being pushed out of existence by the big franchise or prefab haunts. It just sounds like the HAA as suggested is more for the benefit for those haunts than the smaller operator. Ysengrin Werewolf (aka Silvermane) Member Verdun Manor pack http://www.webcom.com/verdun/verdun.html From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 06:20:45 1997 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 06:19:06 -0800 From: Spook To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Haunted Attraction Association Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Good Mourning, Woke up to a few responses to the HAA idea. Please keep in mind that I put this out there for discussion, brainstorming, and ideas. I have no wish to set-up or lead this organization. We banged it around at the Trade Show, and felt that there could be some merit in a HAA. There are many reasons why a HAA can't work (my youngest daughter gave me several), but there may be some benefits that could make all of our lives a little better. I DO NOT have all the answers. I DO NOT know everything there is to know about HA's. Ysengrin suggested that perhaps we kill this thread and go to private e-mails. I am inclinded to agree if that's what the group wishes. Also, public flames will not be cheerfully accepted. If you think I'm blowing smoke, make your flames private (which I will cheerfully accept). I'm looking for ideas. My agenda is to help all of us develop a clear vision about who we are and where we are going. I've never liked working in a vacuum. Below are some responses to responses: JERRY WROTE: But, the inspectors are given the power to overlook these if thay see fit.... VERY UNFAIR system that makes for much ASS KISSING. A: You're correct. At the risk of getting beaten soundly with a large stick, I'll jump out there and say that most of the fire inspectors I've had to deal with were pompous asses. I've found that building a sound relationship with the City Manager and City Council makes this problem go away. And it would be nice to hand the Fire Chief a standardized (well written) HAA fire code, and say "This was developed specifically for Haunted Houses, and we follow them." It makes less work for him and his inspectors, and it makes him feel important. Once he buys off on it, and you actually follow the code, the inspectors will be a bit easier to deal with, because you have buy-in up front. JOHN WROTE: However when one of the "big boys" steps down for the good of the "industry" I have to admit there is a small part of my brain called "skepticism" that begins to go into overdrive. A: I share that skepticism, but may I propose a goundrule for these discussions? I propose that we not allow any third-party flaming. Unless someone can come up with first hand knowledge to the contrary, I would propose that we suspend our skepticism and give Leonard a chance. He's trying to do what most of us don't have the time or skill to do. JERRY ALSO WROTE: O.K. first problem, who is going to verify that the "requirements" have been met? Are the dues going to cover the salaries of enforcement troopers to travel all over the country during a one month period? Or are we going to trust an honor system whereby every haunt "by signing below the written policies the parties agree to conform.....blah...blah..? A: A damned fine question that I do not have an answer for. Volunteer regional inspectors? Suggestions? (remember... "Duh, I don't know" is a valid answer). HARRY WROTE: I would prefer to see an elected board of more than merely the celebrity haunt owners. A: Absolutely! Most HA's are small affairs that are run for personal pleasure, income supplement, or charity. They are the largest part of the industry, but have the least say about what direction the industry will take. The small HA has a VERY different agenda than the big boys. YSENGRIN WROTE: A whole bunch of really good stuff in his post called "HAA(long). A: Required reading if you're interested in this thread. Mark (A Pumpkin) From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 07:13:11 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 07:46:07 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Back from the Trade Show Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi Ghouls, I have been to many trade shows. I have gone to toy shows when I managed a toy store, jewlery shows..because I love it, and machine and tool shoes for my husbands business. The smartest show layout was the gem and jewlery show. They have a separate area where they put businesses that only want to deal in the wholesale market only. So unless you own a large business and do a large amount of ordering from them to sell resale, they don't allow you in. That way their time is not wasted and yours is not either. When I go to a show I don't want to talk to someone that does not want to deal with me because I am small time, so why waste the time. This is just a idea. As a home haunt person I would love to go to the Trade Show, but after hearing opions on the subject I think I will stay home and order from catalogs. IMHO Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 07:27:07 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:00:41 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Pumpkin Preservation (real thing) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi John, since you talked to the folks at PM...please tell me they are coming out with some GOOD new patterns this year...We have used their stuff since they first came out and we like it but it is getting pretty much the same thing every year. Thanks for the info! Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 08:07:03 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:37:38 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Chillin' the fog Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi, We followed the directions that were posted here on the list last year and we had the best low laying fog we have ever had!!! We took a ice chest, added a small blower fan..(picked it up at a scrap yard for $10) made a opening in one end for the hose from the smoke machine and another opening in the other for the cold fog to roll out. filled the bottom with dryice and it worked great!! We made a directional device from a piece of cardboard to make the fog go in the area we wanted!! I am sure someone with more tech knowledge can give you the details, but It Does Work!!!! Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 08:13:18 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:42:40 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Chillin' the fog Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi Ghouls, The fluid we used last year that worked GREAT was the stuff we received from Denny when we bought our machine!! We had some old stuff laying around from the year before and it did not work as well, we used it for testing!!! Denny has some great fluid!! Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 08:25:24 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 08:55:35 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Scene help #1 "Bleeding Walls" Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi Robert, I don't know if you have a answer to this yet, but I thought I would give it a try. Hubby works for a pump company and he says you need to look for a " Positive Displacement Pump" they are a piston pump, or gear pump, not a centrifical pump. He says go to a RV store and pick up a small water faucet pump...they are for the sinks and showers in a motorhome. They put out about 30psi and are made to shut off when you shut the valve down. They are a small displacement pump and would be perfect for what you want to do. Because they do not stir the fluid this should get rid of a lot of your problems. If you have any questions just drop me a line. Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 09:56:07 1997 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Jim Kadel Subject: Re: Scene help #2 "Is he dead?" Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 10:45:00 -0700 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Jerry, You are indeed correct that lamp dimmers are designed for "resistance loads" only, and not the "inductive loads" of motors. However, and I'm NOT recommending this for your situation: As a private haunt master with some knowledge & practical experience, I won't spend more money than I have to. Especially if, as you say, I KNOW the cheaper device can safely handle the application. The 1/4 HP drill, that I used had a max. rating of 3.0 amps (it actually draws much less in the slow speed, low torque "hanging man" application). The lamp dimmer was rated at about twice this current (5 or 6 amps) so it could handle THIS (low amp draw) MOTOR application OK. You gotta KNOW what you're doing OR.. at least test it by operating the application continuously for four hours, if the dimmer doesn't overheat in that time, it's going to work fine. Overheat problems are lessened in a haunt exhibit, when an Event Control Timer (ECT) limits the duty cycle to at least 50%. For example: 15 sec ON time, 15 sec DISABLE. [the purpose of an ECT is not to keep devices from overheating but it has that effect] ============================= Ref ======================= >The lamp dimmers are not made to handle motor control >applications as you described. > >Am I wrong, please let me know because a lamp dimmer is 1/10 >the price of a fan control. and if it is NOT a FIRE hazzard I will use the >dimmers instead! > >jerry- |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Jim Kadel (jimk@rica.net) Haunt Master Products, Inc http://members.aol.com/hmpi |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 09:57:06 1997 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 09:51:21 -0800 From: Death Lord To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Haunted Attraction Association Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx NOTE; this is a long response. Unless you are interested in the HAA thread, you may want to skip it. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Spook wrote: > > Good Mourning, > > Woke up to a few responses to the HAA idea.Below are > some responses to responses: > > JERRY WROTE: > But, the inspectors are given the power to overlook these if thay see > fit.... VERY UNFAIR system that makes for much ASS KISSING. > > A: You're correct. At the risk of getting beaten soundly with a large > stick, I'll jump out there and say that most of the fire inspectors I've > had to deal with were pompous asses. I've found that building a sound > relationship with the City Manager and City Council makes this problem > go away. And it would be nice to hand the Fire Chief a standardized > (well written) HAA fire code, and say "This was developed specifically > for Haunted Houses, and we follow them." It makes less work for him and > his inspectors, and it makes him feel important. Once he buys off on > it, and you actually follow the code, the inspectors will be a bit > easier to deal with, because you have buy-in up front. > Mark (A Pumpkin) I realize I am not a HH owner/operator, but would like to join in anyway. I operate a furniture manufacturing operation where the laws are so strict that there are virtually no others in this area. Therefore, the rules of operation for such a facility existed on a county-wide, state-wide and federal basis, but yet were rarely looked at by local officials due to their ridiculous standards. When I set up my manufacturing plant, the building department put their stamp of approval on the plans. then, the Air Pollution Control came in and cleared my operation wholeheartedly. Then, the fire department came in and cleared everything all over again. Exciting, huh? 4 months later the fire department is out on its annual rounds of fire standards inspections, led by a different fire marshal. Their jaws nearly broke on the floor when they walked in and saw my operation violating everything ever written on fire safety standards. Finding fistfuls of violations previously cleared by the building department, the air pollution control and their OWN FIRE MARSHAL. So at a cost that nearly broke me, I retrofit the entire plant with whosits and whatsits so I wouldn't get red-flagged and shut down. Cool. We've gotten legit. Well, almost. The fire department required an operation like mine to use a spray booth for all spraying indoors. That was okay. I only had to cough up $5000.00 for one, when I practically didn't have enough money to feed my family. The only glitch with putting the spray booth in is that my building didn't have sprinkler water going to it. And without it, the spray booth was against the law to install. And the only problem with that was the building didn't have the water. And the fire department wouldn't let us take the water from the mainline, because they couldn't spare it. So I leave the spray booth in the box and operate under limbo, waiting for water. A few months later an employee loses his job to go to a Lemon-Heads (punk/slam band)concert. So he goes to OSHA. OSHA walks in and wears out four No#5 pencils writing me up for three PAGES of violations. These are the EXACT SAME things that the building department, fire department and air pollution control have already covered with me. So I have to work for two months and sell a kidney to cover the fines and the retrofits that covered nearly every square foot of manufacturing plant. But we did it. And even though OSHA went through us like a hot enema, they still had no problem with the fact that the spray booth wasn't in place to meet the fire code. To make a loooonnng story longer, the upshot is that no one governmental extension of the laws we are supposed to follow are in agreement with the other at all. So what ever happened to the plant after all this? After filing extensions, getting the governor involved, the district superintendent and the building commission, we finally lasted long enough to put in a spray booth without water, using halogen. But it took seven years to become legal. Which brings me to this; If it took me seven years to become legal, what are the chances of your local haunt that endangers the hearing, eyesight and well being of many thousands of people running into a letter-of-the-law glitch that keeps you from running? I strongly agree with you all on getting this "Haunt Code" passed on a federal level. If this would be possible, then it would be a simple matter of presenting the local fire and building departments with a copy of this booklet when applying for your permit. It would then be incumbent upon them to verse themselves with the applicable federal laws or shut their damned mouths. For them to override these laws, they would have to pass laws of their own specifically to addendum these federal standards. I would think that your mission would be on a very grand scale to pull this off, what with the lobbying that would be necessary, and the like. Forming a national association of haunters would be an absolute prerequisite to this passage I would think. But think of how nice it would be to just hand the fire marshal a pamphlet and go back to your setup! And wouldn't the local departments of fire and building police your members for you on a regular basis? Of course! You wouldn't have to send anyone out to see if they are following the guide lines of fire and health safety at all once the pamphlet was printed and mailed out. Your members would either hand out and follow the pamphlet, or fight tooth-and-nail the whole way with the local authorities. Just a quick note of agreement. . . .;~) -- X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Rest in Peace. The Death Lord http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/index.html X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 10:10:14 1997 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 09:59:39 -0800 From: Brian Rich To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Black Hole revisited Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Jason Christman wrote: > Have any of you ever gotten good results from using laser pointers for > certain effects? I have some info on this. Try http://www.west.net/~science/laser.htm -- Brian Wesley Rich ------------------------------------------------- Visit my amateur science page. Chemicals, sample experiments, and good ideas! http://www.west.net/~science/ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 10:21:10 1997 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:16:39 -0800 From: Death Lord To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Chillin' the fog Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com John P. Jeffries wrote: >You misunderstood, I did not use dry Ice to make >fog, I used it in a CHILLIER to cool fog instead of using >normal ice, It lasted for hours! (I used a radiator system of metal >tubing inside of the home made chillier!) Has anyone thought of using an automobile heater radiator to route the fog through, while the radiator was immersed in ice? This would cost a few bucks at most used, and would likely work really well. I would think the heat of the fog wouldn't melt the ice as quickly also. What do you think? Or is that making someting simple into a mathmatical equation? -- X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Rest in Peace. The Death Lord http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/index.html X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 11:30:11 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 10:29:08 -0700 Subject: Re: Haunted Attraction Association To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Mark, cocerning the thread going private, I would prefer to see it continue as a discussion. The list itself is a voice of many, from the porch haunter to the professional, and everywhere in between. It is this very eclecticism that allows the various viewpoints towards haunting in general. And the opinion of a porch haunter may carry more intelligence and useful ideas than a seasoned industry member. one thing I would like to see more in an association is increased contact with other members. I am a member of ACE (american coaster enthusiasts) and we keep in pretty close contact all around I run up about $200 per month in long distance phone bills to other members and friends with the latest in rollercoaster news. The various haunts tend to be rather isolated from knowin of each other, except from hearing about them in the media or doing a web search. The idea that HauntedAmerica charges $100 pewr link to a haunted website is VERY offensive to me, isolating their "informational" links to those haunted houses that pay their fees. With increased communication, more ideas can be passed round, tips about fire safety and local enforcement. Instead of meeting a set standard, the haunt operator can become more knowledgeable about what various other haunts are doing. Members keep in contact trading information. This list works in the similar manner where everyone trades information, increasing the knowledge overall. Harry [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 12:09:34 1997 From: Spookyfx@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:02:48 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Black Hole revisited Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com In a message dated 97-03-29 03:37:52 EST, you write: << since I think your eyes would be immediately drawn to the light source and not the surroundings. External lighting may work, but I think you would need at least 3 sources to simulate a circulating star-field. One on each side,and one on top all turning in the same direction. But again this could prove to be a problem in that you would be flooding the scene with light and you would be at least exposing the frame work of your "tunnel" (through shadow silhouettes).This is definitely an idea worth exploring though. >> ----------------------------------------------------------- I have done it. It worked, The stars would only look like they were twinkling when an obstruction would obscurer the projection. I got the hole idea from a toy that is used to make a kids (or a fun loving adult) room seem to spin around. It is a very convincing illusion! One that can NOT be appreciated unless experienced! Yours ghouly Jerry - @ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ ^v^ Esoteric Toys ^v^ (Creative, Not expensive solutions in special effects.) Web page: http://members.aol.com/Spookyfx/index.html @ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 12:18:48 1997 From: Spookyfx@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:14:05 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Chillin' the fog Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com In a message dated 97-03-29 04:26:36 EST, you write: << At 01:59 AM 3/29/97 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-03-29 01:22:26 EST, you write: > ><< It's been discussed in some previous posts, and true dry ice delivers the > optimum effect.. Blah, blah blah (snip) >You misunderstood, I did not use dry Ice to make >fog, I used it in a CHILLIER to cool fog instead of using >normal ice, It lasted for hours! (I used a radiator system of metal >tubing inside of the home made chillier!) Ah, ok. Still expensive stuff though. Chillers are a good project just the same...Kinda cool (no pun) to watch the thing do it's magic. John >> ------------------------------------------------------- You know, just as I read your last line it hit me! I wonder if "cold packs" the kind used in sports would work? The electrical danger would also be reduced and it would last longer than normal ice. would it be colder? jerry- From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 12:23:02 1997 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:19:23 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Jason Christman Subject: Laser Effects (was Black Hole revisited) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >I have some info on this. Try http://www.west.net/~science/laser.htm > >-- >Brian Wesley Rich >------------------------------------------------- >Visit my amateur science page. >Chemicals, sample experiments, and good ideas! >http://www.west.net/~science/ > Ah...thanx. That page is great. It's describes the effect that I was looking to achieve: | "While you've got this dense fog filling your living room, try this; Get a small polished cylindrical object, such as a drill bit, and aim the laser beam at the cylinder. The beam will spread out into a fan. Aiming the beam through a glass or clear plastic stirring rod will do the same thing. Now orient the cylinder or rod vertically so the laser fan sweeps out in a horizontal sheet. Look at the cross section this cuts in the laser fog. Try not to disturb the fog too much, but let it settle down into a steady, ever shifting maelstrom of micro eddies and vortices. It's incredible to watch." Now, Jerry, you said that every laser effece that you've ever needed to create you could do with a slide projector...how would you make it fan out like this? Jason the newbie Ghoulie --JASON CHRISTMAN-- ************************************* * E-MAIL: jasonch@jersey.net * * HOMEPAGE: www.jersey.net/~jasonch * ************************************* Drive defensively -- buy a tank. From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 12:29:01 1997 From: Spookyfx@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:26:15 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Scene help #2 "Is he dead?" Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com In a message dated 97-03-29 13:00:15 EST, you write: << As a private haunt master with some knowledge & practical experience, I won't spend more money than I have to. Especially if, as you say, I KNOW the cheaper device can safely handle the application. >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- You sound like you know what your doing! I know just enough to follow what you said about the load. I actually do use PIR detectors for non inductance applications for the same reasons you outlined. I only said what I did because I had some trouble with burning when I tried the light dimmers and wanted to make sure that others on the list would know that it could be dangerous. Thanks for your in depth AC knowledge on the subject! :~) jerry From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 12:38:02 1997 From: Spookyfx@aol.com Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:35:31 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Haunted Attraction Association Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com In a message dated 97-03-29 09:20:53 EST, you write: << JERRY WROTE: But, the inspectors are given the power to overlook these if thay see fit.... VERY UNFAIR system that makes for much ASS KISSING. A: You're correct. At the risk of getting beaten soundly with a large stick, I'll jump out there and say that most of the fire inspectors I've had to deal with were pompous asses. I've found that building a sound relationship with the City Manager and City Council makes this problem go away. And it would be nice to hand the Fire Chief a standardized (well written) HAA fire code, and say "This was developed specifically for Haunted Houses, and we follow them." It makes less work for him and his inspectors, and it makes him feel important. Once he buys off on it, and you actually follow the code, the inspectors will be a bit easier to deal with, because you have buy-in up front. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- hmmmmmmm...... I like it! But is there any other industry that this happens in? I believe in looking to other examples before self analyses... jerry From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 14:08:32 1997 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 17:31:15 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Re: Chillin' the fog Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >You know, just as I read your last line it hit me! >I wonder if "cold packs" the kind used in sports >would work? The electrical danger would also >be reduced and it would last longer than normal ice. >would it be colder? > >jerry- Donno, might be worth a shot. (Re-useable as well). John ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 15:15:58 1997 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:18:57 -0800 From: Death Lord To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: MIRC chat Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Just wanted to remind everyone where the chat is in MIRC tonight; The description is; DALnet:US,KY,Lexington The IRC Server is; Mystic.DAL.net Ports are; 6667,7000 Group is; dalnet Channel is; #Halloween Once again, this is Saturdays from 3 PM to 10 PM PST. By the way, the easiest way togo directly into the group anymore since the MIRC program sends up the "Join Channel" box upon logging on, is simply type #Halloween in the space provided and then hit "add" so each time you logg on, you can go straight in to channel. Talk to you there. Wil -- X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Rest in Peace Death Lord http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/index.html X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 16:18:12 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 16:52:08 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: photos Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi Ghouls, I have a question for all of you of the learned profession on Halloween. I am in search of Black and White stills of the old classic horror movies. Dracula, Wolfman, Frankie, etc!!! simple little 8x10 stills, they don't have to be really great, just something to put up along the line so the people have something to look at while they are waiting, sort of get them in the mood. If any of you sell them, let me know. If any of you know who does, please let me know!! While we were down in LA this week I tried to find a place to get them, but no luck. Or they wanted a small fortune for them...As in $10 each!!!! I don't need high qualilty!! Thanks for the help ahead of time. Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 16:52:46 1997 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 18:53:00 -0600 (CST) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Pumpkin Preservation (real thing) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com On Fri, 28 Mar 1997, Michael Marcrum wrote: > Hi John, > since you talked to the folks at PM...please tell me they are coming > out with some GOOD new patterns this year...We have used their stuff > since they first came out and we like it but it is getting pretty much > the same thing every year. Thanks for the info! > Kathy > the new kid on the crypt > mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com > Hi Kathy, I didn't get a chance to see if they had new patterns out but I did see the contest winners from this year. The designs of the winners were pretty amazing. I hope they resrved the right to publish the winner's patterns. Some were way too intricately involved for me to ever consider attempting but others seemed fairly easy (but extremely creative). Btw- some more tips I got from the PM folks: If your not interested in actual preservation but just in extending the life of your carved pumpkin this is what they suggest-First and foremost keep your pumpkin from drying out.Keep a spray bottle handy and spritz with water several times a day (both inside and out). Avoid candles or lamps that produce alot of heat. They suggest Christmas tree lights (you must cut a hole in the bottom of your pumpkin) especially if you are going to display several of them. At night it is best to refridgerate, but if this isn't possible, submerge the pumpkin in water or finally, at the very least give it a good dose of spraying (with water) and cover with plastic wrap. JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 18:00:44 1997 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 21:25:53 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Re: photos Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 04:52 PM 3/28/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Ghouls, > I have a question for all of you of the learned profession on >Halloween. I am in search of Black and White stills of the old classic >horror movies. Dracula, Wolfman, Frankie, etc... (snip) There is a site that deals in publicity photos like that, but I saved it on the other machine... In the meantime, drop by the official KARLOFF homepage at: http://www/pe.net~karloff You can follow the links to "The Monster Bash" and other film great sites. Hope this helps, I'll look for that place that sells the photos. John ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 18:20:06 1997 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 18:50:40 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: photos Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hey John, thanks for the help. I will check them out, and look forward to hearing about the other page. Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 18:29:25 1997 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 20:25:06 -0600 (CST) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Haunted Attraction Association Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com On Sat, 29 Mar 1997, Spook wrote: >(snip) > Woke up to a few responses to the HAA idea. Please keep in mind that I > put this out there for discussion, brainstorming, and ideas. I have no > wish to set-up or lead this organization. We banged it around at the > Trade Show, and felt that there could be some merit in a HAA.......... >Also, public flames will not be > cheerfully accepted. If you think I'm blowing smoke, make your flames > private (which I will cheerfully accept). I'm looking for ideas. My > agenda is to help all of us develop a clear vision about who we are and > where we are going. I've never liked working in a vacuum. Below are > some responses to responses: Hey Mark, first and foremost I'd like to say that if you interpreted my post as a flame or critisism toward you or anyone else I humbly apologize. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the most articulate of writers and in this kind of medium it is easy to be misinterpeted.I'd like to think we are all friends here and we are on this list for the mutual exchange of ideas and concerns.I was simply trying to convey my personaltrepidations about the formation of an organization.I think that the ideas that you presented were exactly the kinds rational an organization is being considered and my opinions were directed at subject at hand, not you personally. I agree that an organization has some merit if its priorities are in the right place. > > JOHN WROTE: > However when one of the "big boys" steps down for the good of the > "industry" I have to admit there is a small part of my brain called > "skepticism" that begins to go into overdrive. > > A: I share that skepticism, but may I propose a goundrule for these > discussions? I propose that we not allow any third-party flaming. > Unless someone can come up with first hand knowledge to the contrary, I > would propose that we suspend our skepticism and give Leonard a chance. > He's trying to do what most of us don't have the time or skill to do. > Here again I was not trying to personally attack Leonard. Actually I refer to him as one of the "big boys" as sort of a term of endearment. I think we can all agree that Leonard is probably one of the most well known and successfull people in the HA industry. He has far more know- ledge and experience than I'll probably ever achieve. Also I said I was "skeptical" of his intentions and I think that is only natural.You yourself mentioned that you immediately become distrustful of someone who wants to take charge.I was just trying to reaffirm that position. When someone of his success is willing to give up his role for the good of everyone in this business, who can help but ask, "What is in it for him?". If his intentions are truly indeed for the good of everyone then I will support him 100%. > JERRY ALSO WROTE: > > O.K. first problem, who is going to verify that the "requirements" have > been met? Are the dues going to cover the salaries of enforcement > troopers to travel all over the country during a one month period? Or > are we going to trust an honor system whereby every haunt "by signing > below the written policies the parties agree to > conform.....blah...blah..? > > A: A damned fine question that I do not have an answer for. Volunteer > regional inspectors? Suggestions? (remember... "Duh, I don't know" is a > valid answer). > This was me actually and I wrote this as something for us to consider. I didn't expect you to have an answer and I know that I don't.But I think if an organiztion is going to form and especially before they consider collecting dues that a reasonable way of regulating who exactly is living up to the standards set forth needs to be established. I'd be more than happy to continue this discussion on or off the list but I decided to post this to clear up any possible misinterpretations that I may have caused.I agree that personal attacks are not condusive to constuctive dialog and I will try to be a little more carefull in the future. JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sat Mar 29 22:33:17 1997 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:31:49 -0800 (PST) From: Don Bertino To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Passing along a comment about the listserv [banter] Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com On Fri, 28 Mar 1997, Greg Hope wrote: > FYI, one person who responded to the member list survey also included a wish > that the listserv could be moderated. Out of fairness, I feel compelled to > pass his comment along to the group at large. Personally, I feel like we're > "self-moderated" in a way, in that we label banter, eject troublemakers and > generally work hard to maintain a friendly, cooperative atmosphere. Anyway, > one person mentioned it, so here it is. I couldn't have said it better, Greg! I wouldn't have it any other way. > PS, I'm not associated with the listserv in any administrative capacity. > I'm just another groupie who became the member list troll (visualize Igor > hissing, "Greetings, what are your special interests, mahster?" Heh heh heh... Here's a bone... fetch... *ducks and runs* don bertino@netcom.com ____/^\_____________________________________ Disney ascii art & / \ || FDC MCP || / \ animations are at <______\ [] [] [] || [] [] [] || [] [] [] /______> http://www.calweb.com \----------------||----------||----------------/=== /~bertino===============\______________||__________||______________/===== From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Mar 30 00:55:25 1997 From: Spookyfx@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 03:52:38 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Laser Effects (was Black Hole revisited) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com In a message dated 97-03-29 18:17:49 EST, you write: << Now, Jerry, you said that every laser effece that you've ever needed to create you could do with a slide projector...how would you make it fan out like this? Jason the newbie Ghoulie --JASON CHRISTMAN-- ************************************* >> -------------------------------------- Was this a challenge? :~> EASY! (again an effect that I have already done.) I used the same method as describe for my cheap laser, but a SLIT in the slide was used instead of a pin point. I used this to create a “doorway to another dimension”. for the entrance of my haunted house in the city of Highland California. (Was this just a cleaver way to use my pride against me to do your design work for you?) just joking ;~> Youurs ghouly Jerry - @ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ ^v^ Esoteric Toys ^v^ (Creative, Not expensive solutions in special effects.) Web page: http://members.aol.com/Spookyfx/index.html @ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Mar 30 01:50:17 1997 From: Spookyfx@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 04:48:26 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: HAA (long!) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com In a message dated 97-03-29 08:03:27 EST, you write: << >A fire code developed exclusively for HA's. Whee! Don't hold your breath. And, honestly, the existing national fire code is not that difficult to work with. I'd much rather err on the side of safety. And if you're talking about strengthening the UFC in regards to HA - the existing UFC works pretty well. >>----------------------------------------------------------- >From the N.F.P.A life and safety codes: 8-4.6.42 amusement building exit code Exit marking shall be of luminescent, self-luminescent or electric luminescent type. jerry: I doubt the glow in the dark paint or fluorescent poster paint would get by a strict interpretation. You would need to use a $30 lighted exit sign, and you would need Two for each exit. One on top the other set for people walking or crawling according to 8-4.6.43 which requires “low level exit sighs.” 8-4.4.5 hazardous chemicals or materials and class 2 lasers are prohibited. jerry: Hazardous is a relative term. salad oil under some circumstances is considered a hazardous material that requires a permit for handling. I am just saying that this is wide open for interpretation and again it is up to the “authority having jurisdiction”. 8-4.5 special provisions for the handicap. The HH is required to be accessible to the handicap. jerry: I went to 12 HH last year and not ONE of them completely meet this code. Many had low ceilings and cramped areas or stairs that a wheelchair could not navigate. 8-4.82 Every amusement building MUST be protected throughout by an approved automatic sprinkler system. jerry: MANY of the same HH I visited did NOT have such. Even some of the LARGE HH that were sponsored by corporate sponsors. 8-48.3: Activation of a smoke detection system must sound an alarm and shut off confusing sounds and lights and illuminate exit sighs. jerry: Not one of the charity units I was allowed to visit backstage had this system. I asked the designers of two of them and both knew it was required but one could not implement such, and the other did have it , but because it was a custom made system it was of coarse not OSHA approved. 8-4.6.5 Interior finish must be Class A throughout. jerry: this pretty much disallows any material that is NOT flame resistant. The fire marshal I talked to in my area claimed that if he were to really push this, all the material in my HH would have to be professionally treated and TAGGED by a licensed company. (yeah, right! have any of you on the list done this? If so please give me the name of the company that did it for you for a price that would not unrealistically inflate your ticket prices to your customers!) These are but a few of the codes that I have seen “waved” by the inspectors. If these must be waved, than why are they codes in the first place! Some one once said that a law that makes most of its citizens criminals is an evil law..... I am not saying I think that we should not be concerned with safety! Even if the government did not regulate safety, ethics and the fact that you could be sued mandate that safety be a prime concern! I am just saying that there are reasonable risks in everything we do! You have more of a chance of getting hurt crossing the street to the HH than getting hurt IN the HH. But we don’t make as many codes for crossing the street. jerry- From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Mar 30 09:09:34 1997 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 09:43:43 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: animatronics Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Doug F. I tried to get to your site today, and it will not let me in!!! Did you change your URL Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Mar 30 10:32:58 1997 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 12:30:57 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Ysengrin Werewolf Subject: Re: HAA/codes (still long!) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com It's mostly up to the inspectors. It's not always fair, but it's the system that we're stuck with. And all the problems affect any business, not just HA's. We always check out a city's inspectors before setting anything up - if a key inspector doesn't like haunted houses, then you're screwed. Some inspectors would actually be offended by a HAA safety checklist for them to use. Plus, I've written local codes as part of my day job - and most of 'em are poorly thought out, written with weird quirks that some councilman came up with or suggested by some special interest, often contidictory and often impossibly expensive for anyone to comply. That's why the inspector has a lot of leeway in dealing with the local codes - and why lawsuits are sometimes filed against cities. One quick example - a major city here in Texas by law requires a $150 permit to replace each and every burned-out light bulb visible from a public street - including your porch light and any lights visible through windows. It's not enforced - unless someone complains or the inspector doesn't like you. Yes, businesses are over-regulated, but trying to get special exceptions nationally for haunts is very unlikely. There are national small business associations that are working to re-vamp the system for everyone, and they've got a much better (but still small) chance of doing so. Many Texas towns also specifically exempt church-sponsored functions from almost _all_ fire and building codes. Something to check out when setting up a haunt. At 04:48 AM 3/30/97 -0500, Jerry wrote: >From the N.F.P.A life and safety codes: >8-4.6.42 amusement building exit code >Exit marking shall be of luminescent, self-luminescent or >electric luminescent type. > >jerry: I doubt the glow in the dark paint or fluorescent >poster paint would get by a strict interpretation. We haven't found an inspector who would accept either. One juristiction required signage that would glow on it's own for a five year period - and cost around $250 each. We haven't been hit with the low-level signage yet (or braelle signage, required by the ADA). >8-4.4.5 hazardous chemicals or materials >and class 2 lasers are prohibited. This always makes me a little nervous - virtually anything can be considered hazardous by the inspector. Glass appears on some town's lists of hazardous materals, for example. >8-4.5 special provisions for the handicap. >The HH is required to be accessible to >the handicap. This is the ADA again. If you're a two-story building you are permitted to have stairs-only access to the upper floor. If you have more than two stories you _must_ have a functional elevator. We've taken out all low-ceiling scenes (sewer crawl, shrinking hallway, etc.), and most of our tight passages because of access questions. We're still trying to find a solution for our cave (grandfathered in right now). Most of the fire code requirements are sufficent for the ADA. One thing that we do to keep our wheelchair patrons happy is that we let them and their party in for free. We don't advertise that, but do it on a case-by-case basis. We have (maybe) one or two wheelchairs a week. >8-4.82 Every amusement building MUST >be protected throughout by an approved >automatic sprinkler system. The UFC (Universal Fire Code) makes it suggested strongly, but not required, and makes exceptions for tents. It just depends on which set of codes your local town has adopted. Verdun Manor is sprinklered throughout. When we've been inspected by the fire marshall, we post a copy of his report at the ticket booth, too. >8-48.3: Activation of a smoke detection >system must sound an alarm and >shut off confusing sounds and lights >and illuminate exit sighs. Agreed - this one is pretty unworkable, and most inspectors will waive it - especially if you have many highly-visible exits. Most dance halls and movie theatres aren't in compliance, either. And isn't an alarm a confusing sound? >8-4.6.5 Interior finish must be Class A throughout. >jerry: this pretty much disallows any material that >is NOT flame resistant. The fire marshal I talked to >in my area claimed that if he were to really push >this, all the material in my HH would have to be >professionally treated and TAGGED by a licensed >company Unless he wants to be on the losing end of a lawsuit, he'd have to require the same level of compliance from _all_ businesses in his jurisdiction; it's illegal to selectively enforce requirements. Unless the inspector is on a vendetta against haunts, he's not going to push it. And if all businesses are required to do it - grin and bear it, or relocate. We expect the fire marshall to flame-test any material we have in a scene - we hope he'll test an area that's not visible to the public. A fire marshall who doesn't like haunts will cheerfully flame test the face of every one of your masks. It's not fair, but the system has too much inertia to be easily changed. >These are but a few of the codes that I have >seen "waved" by the inspectors. If these must >be waved, than why are they codes in the first place! >Some one once said that a law that makes most of >its citizens criminals is an evil law..... See my opening comments. It stinks that many of these requirements can be applied to a porch display as strongly as to a large paid-entry haunt. It makes me angry to see a black-plastic trash bag maze be passed with flying colors while we're having to replace a back-area door because the doorknob is not at the regulation height. Usually it's possible to work within the system - but if you run into an inspector with a personal gripe against haunts or one that's power-drunk, you're in for a rough ride. I don't feel that an HAA would make any dent in the burden of regulations - but that doesn;t mean that it shouldn't be tried. On a personal basis, it's too much trouble (usually) to argue with inspectors. Ysengrin Werewolf (aka Silvermane) Member Verdun Manor pack http://www.webcom.com/verdun/verdun.html From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Mar 30 11:25:08 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 10:33:22 -0700 Subject: Re: HAA (long!) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com (important fire safety information revealed by Jerry) Those are another set of kudos I want to give to the Jay Corn books. His construction methods he outlines follow UFC and seem to exceed them at times. For example, the crank throughs on HauntedHouse.com onle show about 4 fire exits for the larger crank-throughs. His design appears to have at least 8 or more, depending on size. His books also give the sprinkler system and fire alarm system. I have never seen such detail in the Phillip Morris book. You can never be too safe in a haunted house design. Period. Harry [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Mar 30 13:29:20 1997 From: BUSH134@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 16:27:00 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: hi Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hello. I am pretty new on this list and I want to know where you people live? In my old neighborhood(I have recently moved) I was the only one who decorated for Halloween. Do any of you live in eithor Katy, TX, or Highlands Ranch, CO? If you do, I will want to check it out at Halloween. Also, are there any people younger than 18 on this list besides me? Just want to know if I am the only 15 year old who decorates for Halloween. Thanks. Michael From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Mar 30 13:56:22 1997 From: ZTBJAZZ@aol.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 16:53:55 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: hi Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I am 16 and i am on the list. I do a Haunted House with my church in IL. I love do the set up and thinking of Ideas Zach From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Mar 30 15:12:38 1997 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 18:05:29 -0500 (EST) To: HALLOWEEN-L@netcom.com From: Sheila Compton Subject: WELCOME Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I am new to this group, so I would like to introduce myself. My family and I have run a family market garden for the pass 16 years. Ever year we put a large pumpkin display on our front lawn to get ready for Halloween, and to sell our large supply of pumpkins. Last year I had 60 stuffed pumpkin men on my front lawn with other things, ex. straw tractor. .. My men our stuffed and stand on fence post, so they all have there own personalty. My front yard is very very popular with the public, as we are close to the highway. I even have Wedding parties who wanted a Fall scene to have some wedding picture taken. Ever year I take great pride in my front yard and continue to add to it every year. I would like to hear from any on who might have some new ideas for this year. Thank you. Sheila Compton Prince Edward Island Canada From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Mar 30 17:54:08 1997 From: matthew garza To: "'BUSH134@aol.com'" Subject: RE: hi Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 19:34:35 -0500 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com ---------- From: BUSH134@aol.com[SMTP:BUSH134@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, March 30, 1997 11:27 AM To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: hi Hello. I am pretty new on this list and I want to know where you people live? In my old neighborhood(I have recently moved) I was the only one who decorated for Halloween. Do any of you live in eithor Katy, TX, or Highlands Ranch, CO? If you do, I will want to check it out at Halloween. Also, are there any people younger than 18 on this list besides me? Just want to know if I am the only 15 year old who decorates for Halloween. Thanks. Michael Hi Michael! I'm actually 18, but I started decorating three years ago! I'm on the verge of tackling a haunted house this upcoming season. The original plan was to do a full blown commercial haunt, but since this is my first year to do an entire house (rather than last years haunted garage), i decided to go with a free neighborhood house for the experience. I'm doing it in coordination with my neighborhood and we are going to try and do a full carnival this year. Anyways, I live in SugarLand which is right by Katy. I actually have some friends that live in Katy and I go up there alot! Okay. Take it easy. matt From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Mar 30 20:35:03 1997 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 20:25:55 -0800 From: Death Lord To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: hi Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com BUSH134@aol.com wrote: > > Hello. I am pretty new on this list and I want to know where you people > live? In my old neighborhood(I have recently moved) I was the only one who > decorated for Halloween. Do any of you live in eithor Katy, TX, or Highlands > Ranch, CO? If you do, I will want to check it out at Halloween. Also, are > there any people younger than 18 on this list besides me? Just want to know > if I am the only 15 year old who decorates for Halloween. Thanks. > > Michael Welcome young Michael. I hope you never lose your interest to scare on halloween. May your stay with us be eternal. -- X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Rest in Peace. The Death Lord http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/index.html X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Mar 30 20:38:39 1997 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 20:30:49 -0800 From: Death Lord To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: WELCOME Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Sheila Compton wrote: > > I am new to this group, so I would like to introduce myself. My family and > I have run a family market garden for the pass 16 years. Ever year we put a > large pumpkin display on our front lawn to get ready for Halloween, and to > sell our large supply of pumpkins. > Last year I had 60 stuffed pumpkin men on my front lawn with other things, > ex. straw tractor. .. My men our stuffed and stand on fence post, so they > all have there own personalty. My front yard is very very popular with the > public, as we are close to the highway. I even have Wedding parties who > wanted a Fall scene to have some wedding picture taken. Ever year I take > great pride in my front yard and continue to add to it every year. I would > like to hear from any on who might have some new ideas for this year. > > Thank you. > > Sheila Compton Prince Edward Island Canada Welcome Sheila. I am stunned by your ambition! SIXTY pumpkin men? You are not lazy, are you? I hope you enjoy the list topics and bid you that your stay with us be eternal. -- X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Rest in Peace. The Death Lord http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/index.html X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Mar 30 21:46:26 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:45:30 -0700 Subject: Re: hi To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Welcome, Michael. We are all over the map. I'm 33, an arcde game design who lives in an environ of Los Angeles, California. We are all at different lvels for Halloween. You'll enjoy the list. Have fun! Harry [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Mar 30 23:08:49 1997 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 23:07:58 -0800 From: Death Lord To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Haunted Attraction Magazine Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Robert Bradvica wrote: > > I just received my sample copy of Haunted Attraction Magazine today, and it > is a great piece of work. Nice articles, great ads, even a piece by our own > Doug Ferguson. Nice job Oliver. Thanks for the sample. > > Robert > rbradvica@themall.net I would like one of these if possible Oliver. -- X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Rest in Peace. The Death Lord http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/index.html X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Sun Mar 30 23:17:55 1997 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 23:18:02 -0800 From: Death Lord To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Trauma, Fog, Flying Ghosts. Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Success! Well, near success anyway. I came within 5 minute's work of completing my Trash Can Trauma and am stoked. This is a really cool project for anyone that likes a minor challenge, but a challenge nonetheless. I promise to put up pictures and very specific details on the construction of this, since the instructions I went from are good, but left me with a few questions. So I hope to have this to offer as repayment for the great start that I got from Larry Lund's great photos and how-to. Without them, I would certainly never have had a 'Trauma! I have a quick question to pose to the members. I am very interested in using the ice chest for cooling fog-machine fog, and would like to know if anyone has used any type of radiator-ish piping for running through regular ice. I read the post from the member a couple of nights ago saying he ran the pipes through dry ice and it lasted a long time. My question is this; Using standard ice,did the piping help the ice not to melt as quickly, or was there any difference? And was the piping brass or pvc? And is the cooling as effective for the fog to lay close to the ground using the piping? And would galvanized pipe work well you think? Also, I have some fog juice now, it's from Fitco, called "Straight From the Grave Fog Juice". Is this the better stuff, as sold here by some of our own vendors, or the el-cheapo stuff that doesn't make thick dense fog? Also, I've been in touch with Bob Andrews regarding the materials and the hangar system for ghost itself for the Axworthy Flying Ghost. It seems there is a lot of difficulty in getting the ghost light enough to turn the corners without jumping off the track. It seems there are a few ways to go on attaching the ghost to the thread (Kevlar I take it?) as well as a host of methodes for making the ghost light AND scary. Does anyone have the hot setup for this? I would like to do one of these for this year as well as the Flying Crank Ghost. Any insights on either one of the events would be appreciated. Thanks. Wil -- X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Rest in Peace. The Death Lord http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/index.html X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 05:35:12 1997 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 06:09:59 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: hi Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Michael, Welcome to the Halloween list!! And you are never to young to start loving Halloween!! Tell us more about how you decorate!! I live in California, and we too are the only people in our area to decorate!! Enjoy and be ready to learn a lot from these great folks.. Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 05:36:57 1997 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 06:12:26 -0800 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: WELCOME Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Sheila, Welcome to Halloween!! Your yard sounds great!! I have been trying for the last couple of years to grow a BIG pumpkin!! I think it is great what you do!! How do you make the pumpkin people, one of them might look good in our graveyard!! Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 06:50:08 1997 From: sao@mit.edu To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Passing along a comment about the listserv [banter] Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 09:47:59 EST Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com On Fri, 28 Mar 1997, Greg Hope wrote: > FYI, one person who responded to the member list survey also included a wish > that the listserv could be moderated. [...] Personally, I feel like we're > "self-moderated" in a way [...] And Don Bertino replied, Sat, 29 Mar 1997 22:31:49 -0800 (PST): >I couldn't have said it better, Greg! I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm not the person who requested that the list be moderated, but I do get exasperated by the high noise-to-signal ratio at times. I see some posters, over-and-over, quoting entire articles just to add one or two lines of new text, and following the whole mess up with a multi-line sig. I see posters replying to the list with personal requests for magazine subscriptions even after someone (Don, in this case) has sent out a posting saying to please send such requests privately. I doubt I'm the only one being one annoyed by the postings containing thirty lines of repeated text with a single line of comment, and the personal replies sent to the list when they actually belong in private email. If we're not going to moderate the list, how do we make people think before they post? Should we require newcomers to pass a quiz on Don's administrative policies, and demonstrate they know how to change the "To:" field and edit included text in a reply before they're added? Andy Oakland sao@mit.edu http://mit.edu/sao/www/ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 07:30:26 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 07:24:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Passing along a comment about the listserv [ba To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Andy, some of us do not have the capability to change the headers in our reply email, such as me for example. It all depends on what program is being used at which end. The signal/noise ratio does not bother me, considering that the list is at a nice keel right now. It really picks up when the fun season is in full force. Right now, the conversations are peppy and stimulating. My only beef right now is tons of junk mail from different companies. For some reason, these idiots picked up my name the second I had pout up the email about music composing. Do you know any way I can get these human leeches off my back? I get 5 list Emails and maybe 20-30 from them at any one time. Annoying as hell.... Harry [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 07:57:56 1997 From: The Youngs To: "HALLOWEEN-L@netcom.com" , "'Sheila Compton'" Subject: RE: WELCOME Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:48:30 -0500 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Welcome Sheila, I'm so happy there's another Canadian on the list. I would love to see your display, but hey PEI is a little bit of a drive from Ontario. I think given your pumpkin display, a quick and easy addition, that shows well in daylight as well as night, would be a graveyard. There are tons of suggestions on how to make tombstones in the halloween archives. Jacqui From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 08:24:11 1997 Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 20:08:28 +0000 From: Tad Peters To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: FOG Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Death Lord wrote: > > I have a quick question to pose to the members. I am very interested in > using the ice chest for cooling fog-machine fog, and would like to know > if anyone has used any type of radiator-ish piping for running through > regular ice. > > Wil > -- > > X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X > Rest in Peace. > > The Death Lord > http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/index.html > X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X I have not. I do however pass this technique on to many, many customers just from one personal experience, no pictures, not a long commentary, just basically this is what it is, this is what is does, the alternative is outrageous, convinced! They (over 30) have all reported that thiers worked beyond thier expectations. I would call that an indorsement. I strongly reccomend the tube shaped ice. Crushed ice becomes to dense, to quickly and does not allow flow of fog through the ice. Cubed ice in various configurations does not sem to have enough sides, and does not sufficiently cool the fog, but the ice shjaped like a TUBE seems to work best. I am not sure but I suspect that if the fog is cooled to below the local dew point that it will not rise? Is that corrert and do they have anything to do with each other the temop of the fog and the dew temp. -- Tad Peters A. Harlequin Costume makeup@earthlink.net 9589 Foothill Blvd tpeters@webbwerks.com Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730 www.costumemagic.com <=- Web Page (909) 948-2950 From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 08:24:20 1997 From: sao@mit.edu To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Passing along a comment about the listserv [ba Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:21:28 EST Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com htraver@dreamsys.com, Mon, 31 Mar 1997 07:24:16 -0700: >Andy, some of us do not have the capability to change the headers in our >reply email, such as me for example. It all depends on what program is >being used at which end. Harry: I'm sorry to hear your email package doesn't let you edit the "To:" line in replies. However, anybody on the list (or wanting to join) should be able to simply send a new email message to the original sender instead of pressing "reply." So this would probably be enough for them to meet the checkpoints I suggest below. >Should we require newcomers to pass a quiz on Don's administrative >policies, and demonstrate they know how to change the "To:" field and edit >included text in a reply before they're added? :Andy From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 09:46:24 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:38:47 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: FOG Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 08:08 PM 3/30/97 +0000, Tad wrote: >I am not sure but I suspect that if the fog is cooled to below the local >dew point that it will not rise? Is that corrert and do they have >anything to do with each other the temop of the fog and the dew temp. >-- Hi Tad and all, I've found generally that water and glycol based fogs are about the same density as air, which means it just sits there unless it's warmer, cooler or being stirred up by a fan or wind. So... cooling it below ambient air temperature will make it denser/heavier than air. The colder it is, the heavier it is and the longer it will stay low. The reason for specialty fluids like LSX is because there is less water in the fluid to cool and it is fairly quick dissipating, therefore it disappears before it rises. The quick dissipating feature makes large areas hard to fill with fog if a fogger smaller than a VEI 950 is being used and of course fans and wind will ruin everything by mixing in warmer air. Another quick note- foggers smaller than 940's or 950's will need the LSX or low fog fluid thinned with 15% distilled water because the fluid viscosity is much higher than regular fluid. Low fog fluids are made to be used in more robust professional machines with heavy duty pumps, adding distilled water will ease the burden on the pumps in consumer quality foggers. Denny PS. Regular old ice cubes have worked fine for me. B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 10:58:14 1997 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 10:59:45 -0800 From: Death Lord To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Passing along a comment about the listserv [ba Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com htraver@dreamsys.com wrote: > My only beef right now is tons of junk mail from different companies. > For some reason, these idiots picked up my name the second I had pout up > the email about music composing. Do you know any way I can get these > human leeches off my back? I get 5 list Emails and maybe 20-30 from them > at any one time. Annoying as hell.... > > Harry Yes, just reply to them and demand to be taken off their list. According to advertising laws, they have to drop you. -- X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Rest in Peace Death Lord http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/index.html X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 11:40:58 1997 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 14:40:53 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Jason R Subject: Re: Black Hole revisited Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >At 12:33 PM 3/28/97 -0700, you wrote: > >>If the eye must view Laser light through the fabric, like a sheet, AND this >>the light beam is in constant motion, isn't this a pretty "safe" use? [I >>know we'd require an expert's opinion here, but thought I'd throw out this >>idea: Use an inexpensive Pen Laser pointer with that very cheap mirror & >>toy motor combinations ($5.) sold by "Herbach & Rademan" 800-848-8001 to >>form patterns on a white or otherwise translucent cloth material covering >>the "tunnel". > > Have any of you ever gotten good results from using laser pointers for >certain effects? I was looking into using lasers in one of the rooms for my >haunt this year, but the prices were rather steep, not to mention the safety >concerns. But if I could use laser pointers, which I would think would be >pretty safe if not pointed at people, and get good results, that would be >great. So, any of you ever used them? > Working at a Club I see alot of people come in there with there little laser pointers.. They get drunk and shine them in everyone's faces and "Point" them on other parts of there body {Use your minds here}. Anyways, even though they shine them in people eyes, I have never seen anyone get hurt {Keep in mind that these points are only .2mw and not that umm. Powerfull.} Still. I personnaly don't advise doing anything of that sort. Even if the laser is only.....0000001mw.. It still isnt worth the risk. Heck, I know people who work with 20watt Argons, and dont wear eye protection.. Just asking for trouble if you ask me. They will tell you that the chance of something happening is one in 50 millon, cause they know what there doing.. But still!. The thing that gets me is, these people come into the club, get drunk and start pointing there little red light around.. Like there cool.. Ha!.. Then we turn on that Green/Blue/ Argon we have.. AND SHOW THEM PUNKS WHOS WHO!. Jay ------------------------------------------------------------- -- Jason Roland- Yes, I support Mac's!. -- -- Member FDC {Beach Club lighting tech} -- -- Webmaster of the VRC Homepage. All Disney, all the time. -- -- Http://www.vivanet.com/~thelazer -- -- "I told'em the truth, and they fell for it"-Harry Anderson -- ------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 13:32:10 1997 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:28:37 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Fiber Optic Subject: Hey, Questions about lasers/motors Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Does anyone know where I can get low priced HeNe lasers in different colors (that I don't have to build!!!) I know their is Red, thats all I've really seen, but I would like blue, I think it uses Argon gas or somthing similar. Another one for ya!! Does anyone know where I can get low priced motors on the web, I would like a web site or something, I have a few catalogs. I also need something that has a small post that moves up and down like an inch or so. Thanx Alot.. From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 13:47:52 1997 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:57:47 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Laser point banter (was: Black Hole revisited) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >Working at a Club I see alot of people come in there with there little >laser pointers.. They get drunk and shine them in everyone's faces and >"Point" them on other parts of there body {Use your minds here}. (Hey Ziek, looky hare! I gotz me one of dem laZar do-hinkies, let's get boozed up 'n point 'em at fellers!....yee-haw) ;) I work a club as well, I either take the pointers, ask them to put it away, or leave. It's not only rude to use them to "point" at people, it can be mistaken for a gun sight. Case in point: 1990, police officer was at a stop sign and noticed the tell-tale "red-dot" on his chest. Dropping to the floor of his cruiser, he called in his location and stated the situation. Looking up, to see where it was coming from, the officer was beamed in the forehead, and across both eyes....Shocked, he called back-up, and they stormed the building to find two students playing "dumb" with the still plugged in laser unit on the floor (not a "pointer"). The officer lost part of his eyesight (from 10/15 down to 10/30, and the students were sued and fined in access of $20,000.00. Along with loosing all credits, and removed from campus. ( I don't recall the outcome other than paying the officers medical bills.) Sure, they are fun to watch and tinker with, but when used to aggravate someone, that's another story. I also confiscate pointers that find their way into the Haunt. I give them back once they get outside. Off the soapbox. John. Flames off-list if you will. ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 15:52:21 1997 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 18:45:42 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Fiber Optic Subject: Interesting Web Pages. Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Check out dez web pagez! http://www.nobis.com/btech/index.html Prety kewl. Interesting products. Just found this one while surfin! From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 16:18:39 1997 From: BUSH134@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 19:15:38 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re:walls Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi everyone. I have a good quetion. I just saw today the house that I will be living in in Highlands Ranch, CO. This house has a huge backyard that I think would be perfect for a haunt. I need to somehow make walls. I would normally use black plastic, like in my other(crappy) haunts in my backyard, but their are no trees what so ever to hang it up on and I need a way to space out the yard into rooms. I need to know the cheepest, most effective, and easiest way to build walls. Should I use flats? Give me your best ideas please! Although I haven't decided if I am going to do a haunt or just decorate, I still want some ideas. Thank you. Mike From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 16:46:44 1997 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:31:52 -0800 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Greg Hope Subject: Nag, nag, nag [banter] Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I'll try to keep this short. There still are people who have responded to me saying, "please keep me on the member list," "please send me a copy of the member list," or both, who have given little more than a first name. It's true, participation in the list is voluntary, but it makes sense that, if you are willing to request this information from others in the group, you might consider telling us a little about yourself. The stated goal of the member list was to allow us all learn a little more about one another and to facilitate local introductions for those people who wanted to extend the friendships beyond the internet. Asking for a copy sort of implies these goals and a willingness to share. I'm not preaching here but, "Fred, from California" falls a little short of the spirit of these goals. I sincerely apologize if this sounds a little cranky. It's all still voluntary and some of the folks who fall into this category may simply be incredibly busy and lack the time to give more details. Please send flames to me off-list and I'll face 'em bravely. Greg in Vista T (760) 945-4424 F (760) 726-2804 E ghope@mailhost1.csusm.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 17:43:05 1997 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 17:43:12 -0800 From: Death Lord To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: walls Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com BUSH134@aol.com wrote: > > Hi everyone. I have a good quetion. I just saw today the house that I will > be living in in Highlands Ranch, CO. This house has a huge backyard that I > think would be perfect for a haunt. I need to somehow make walls. I would > normally use black plastic, like in my other(crappy) haunts in my backyard, > but their are no trees what so ever to hang it up on and I need a way to > space out the yard into rooms. I need to know the cheepest, most effective, > and easiest way to build walls. Should I use flats? Give me your best ideas > please! Although I haven't decided if I am going to do a haunt or just > decorate, I still want some ideas. Thank you. > > Mike Okay Mike. I have made el cheapo walls before that can be made for a bit of nothing. Take 3/4" plywood and rip it down to 2 7/8" widths (this gives you 16 pices--enough for 2 complete walls that are 4' x 8'). Then chop the pieces the length you want for height (96" is easy -;~D). Finally, chop cross members to 47 7/8" (You'll need 4 per wall). Now attach the cross members to the uprights using 2 L-brackets per end and 5/8" long No#8 sheet metal screws. One on top, one bottom and 2 more spaced evenly between. This makes a fully dissasemblable wall that is fairly riged, especially if attached to other walls. Simply stretch your plastic across & staple. If you attached 1/8" or 1/4" paneling on either side, it would become an attractive, super inexpensive foom divider. If you live close to Santa Barbara California, you can have all kinds of this size 3/4 oak plywood scrap you want from my furniture plant. Hope this helps. Wil -- X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Rest in Peace Death Lord http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/index.html X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 17:48:07 1997 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 19:48:41 -0600 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: njg@cc.UManitoba.CA (Nick Gloor) Subject: Re: Low-budget "Black Hole" effect Banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >sao@MIT.EDU >In fact, you can take it further than simulating rotation. By setting up >lights so they zoom down the sides of the tunnel as your guest walks through >it, you could simulate an advancing starfield, ala Twilight Zone or 2001. > a couple of friends and I did this accidently to an unsuspecting security guard at university one evening. Imagine if you will an older gentleman guarding the signin book to residence. He looks behind him and sees a light, walks back to investigate and is in the middle of a globular cluster, the look on his face was priceless. We had gotten some slides of astronomical phenom from the astronomy department (oddly enough) and decided we wanted to see them real big, so we were projecting them across the courtyard. There was a glass walled walkway between two buildings which we panned across. Twas really nifty, however I expect you kind of had to be there. Nick "chasing drunks with lasers was even more fun" Gloor From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 18:15:43 1997 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 21:11:51 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Jason R Subject: Re: Hey, Questions about lasers/motors Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >Does anyone know where I can get low priced HeNe lasers in different colors >(that I don't have to build!!!) I know their is Red, thats all I've really >seen, but I would like blue, I think it uses Argon gas or somthing similar. > >Another one for ya!! Does anyone know where I can get low priced motors on >the web, I would like a web site or something, I have a few catalogs. > >I also need something that has a small post that moves up and down like an >inch or so. > >Thanx Alot.. MWK industerys is the place to look for used stuff. They have colors, and have good service.. Tell em Jason Roland sent ya!. {They won't have a clue who that is, but when I order from them, maybe the will remember!} Call 1-800-356-7714 to order stuff. Call 1-909-278-0562 to talk to the store. 1269 W.Pomona Corona, California 91720 Jay ------------------------------------------------------------- -- Jason Roland- Yes, I support Mac's!. -- -- Member FDC {Beach Club lighting tech} -- -- Webmaster of the VRC Homepage. All Disney, all the time. -- -- Http://www.vivanet.com/~thelazer -- -- "I told'em the truth, and they fell for it"-Harry Anderson -- ------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 18:29:38 1997 From: BUSH134@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 21:20:02 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: walls Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com In a message dated 97-03-31 21:05:49 EST, you write: << >> Thank you for your help Wil. I really appreciate it. Mike From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 19:21:18 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 18:26:08 -0700 Subject: Hey, Questions about lasers/motors To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com For lasers, I would check out Nuts and Volts or Radio electronics or Popular Electroniocs magazines. For the post that moves up and down an inch or so, a pinball solonoid will do the trick. Harry [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 21:16:07 1997 From: Spookyfx@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 00:05:34 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: cold fog/warm heart.... Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com death: If I read you correctly, you have tried the PVC. And it doesn't work as well. jerry: Right. death: Also, you think that the ice does last longer this way using a radiator? jerry: No, the chiller works better, ergo chills the fog more. I used dryice and normal ice, both will work but again, the dry ice chills better and is less of an electric hazard! death: Also, what type of steel piping did you use? jerry: copper flex piping. death: And does it make a mess of the inside of the ice chest? jerry: MESS? Well the ICE CHEST can not be salvaged for normal use.... not the way I cut it up and glued it and painted it and....so on... death: And what diameter did you use, and how many cross sections? I figure 1/4" to 3/8" with about 4 or 5 ribs? jerry: One long winding pipe from the fogger to the exhaust. This method dose produce resistance to the flow. I had to use a fan to expedite the flow. by "sucking" the fog out the exhaust. This talking to death stuff reminds me of the sandman series, now there was a "death" to die for ! (heart pounding and much sighing....) Yours ghouly Jerry - @ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ ^v^ Esoteric Toys ^v^ (Creative, Not expensive solutions in special effects.) Web page: http://members.aol.com/Spookyfx/index.html @ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Mon Mar 31 21:30:18 1997 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Jim Kadel Subject: Happy April 1st, Halloweeners Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 22:16:52 -0700 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com The West Virginian's Glossary of Computer Lingo: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Log On: Makin' the wood stove hotter. Log Off: Don't add wood. Monitor: Keep an eye on the wood stove. Download: Gettin' the firewood off the pickup. Mega Hertz: When yer not carefull downloadin' (watch th' toes!) Floppy Disk: Whacha get from pilin' too much firewood. Disk Operating System: The equipment the Doc uses when you have a floppy disk. RAM: The hydraulic thingy that makes the woodsplitter work. Hard Drive: Gettin' home in mud season. Prompt: What you wish the mail was in mud season. Windows: What to shut when the rain comes in. Screen: What you need for black fly season. Byte: What black flies do. Chip: What to munch on. Micro Chip: What's left in the bag when the chips are gone. Infrared: Where the left-overs go when Fred's around. Modem: What you did to the hay fields. Dot Matrix: John Matrix's wife. Printer: Someone who can't write in cursive. Lap Top: Where little kids feel comfy Keyboard: Where you hang your keys. Software: Them plastic eatin' utensils. 486: One of them fancy imported cars. Mouse: What eats the horses' grain in the barn. Main Frame: The part of the barn that holds the roof up. Port: Fancy wine. Enter: C'mon in! Random Access Memory: You can't remember how much that new rifle cost when your wife asks. Digital: Like those numbers that flip on your alarm clock. Apple: If you don't know, I ain't tellin'. Program: What's on TV when there's reception. CD ROM: The furriner at the bank that sells retirement accounts. DIN: The noise at the barn dance. Laser: Someone less ambitious than you. Line In: Whatcha do when you go fishin' or whacha dry yer laundry on. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Jim Kadel (jimk@rica.net) Haunt Master Products, Inc http://members.aol.com/hmpi |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Apr 1 03:05:31 1997 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 05:52:35 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Fiber Optic Subject: Question about slide projectors and lasers Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Somone mensioned that they used slide projectors with slides insted of accual laser beams. This seems in my favor because I would rather spend 15$ and rent a slide projector insted of 115+$ for a laser alone. Could they post the specs and everything on how they did it and the effects they could produce using one and how to produce them.. Thanx Alot. From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Apr 1 05:32:52 1997 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 08:21:04 +0000 From: Cliff Martin To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: walls Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com BUSH134@aol.com wrote: > >I need to know the cheepest, most effective, > and easiest way to build walls. Should I use flats? A cheap wall can be built using 1/4" plywood/masonite, or 3/8" chipboard as the basic 'flat'. Support it with a larger frame of 2x4s across the top of the span. Add angle bracing with 2x4, 1x4, 2x2, etc. Sheetrock/gypsum board screws secure the flats to each other, the top, and the bracing. Put up/ teardown is fast, and takes up minimal storage space. Watch out for the wind when outdoors - a bit of extra bracing is worth the effort to avoid a collapse! The flats can be painted any way you want (plastic doesnt like paint). BTW - If you decide to use plastic sheets instead of panels- *please* dont use any exposed flame or ANY heat source in the haunt! Cliff cliff.martin@saralee.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Apr 1 05:47:28 1997 From: Spookyfx@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 08:38:28 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: walls Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com In a message dated 97-04-01 08:27:01 EST, you write: << BTW - If you decide to use plastic sheets instead of panels- *please* dont use any exposed flame or ANY heat source in the haunt! >> ---------------------------------------------------- If ANY light is used other than low dc, this is not posible, I would sugest using a fire resistant synthetic, call a theatrical supply for this kind of "plastic sheet". jerry- From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Apr 1 05:54:51 1997 From: Spookyfx@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 08:47:46 -0500 (EST) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: walls Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com In a message dated 97-04-01 08:27:01 EST, you write: << A cheap wall can be built using 1/4" plywood/masonite, or 3/8" chipboard as the basic 'flat'. Support it with a larger frame of 2x4s across the top of the span. Add angle bracing with 2x4, 1x4, 2x2, etc. Sheetrock/gypsum board screws secure the flats to each other, the top, and the bracin >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- Is it just the part of the USA I live in? Steel studs and drywall screws are cheaper than wood. Lighter, less flammable, and sometimes much easier to shape and fasten. Yours ghouly Jerry - @ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ ^v^ Esoteric Toys ^v^ (Creative, Not expensive solutions in special effects.) Web page: http://members.aol.com/Spookyfx/index.html @ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Apr 1 06:05:12 1997 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 06:03:54 -0800 From: Iowa Chapman To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: advertising/promoting Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com This is great!! Nice to meet all of you! It is nice to see others with this infatuation with providing something good for the kids around Halloween time.. Was curious if anybody was interested in how to promote their Haunted House? If so I can provide what I feel as some good ideas that I have used in the past few years. Also do you folks have a small charge?? That is if you have a walk through. Here is what we do.. We have a photo session where you can have your picture taken with cast characters, "life sized Crypt Keeper" for 3 bucks, then if you want per say our live Freddy Kreuger in your picture that is another dollar, and for every extra character it is a dollar. We do a Can Food drive for a local food bank and give a dollar off for a can good/s. We have a big yard and it is on a corner street, we have so many people that the cars can barely make it through and it is a major traffic jam. Last year the police said they might have to shut it down if it got any worse, those stiffs left and a few more came but were much more hip with it as they got their picture taken.. it was great!! We love it we have a great time getting ready each year. We also get the local paper to do a write up on us, and 2 years ago we were on the News. This year with the help of some great minds on here we plan on being the best ever :). Question: For those who do walk through Haunted Houses, do you worry about having insurance?? per say incase someone falls and hurts themself.. or do you just say "I dont need it?" we have been wanting to do a walk through but are somewhat afraid of that if someone gets hurt and we have no coverage.. what do you folks think? -- Iowa Chapman e-mail: iowac@earthlink.net Webpage: http://home.earthlink.net/~iowac/ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Apr 1 06:07:10 1997 Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 06:06:50 -0800 From: Iowa Chapman To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: walls Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Spookyfx@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-04-01 08:27:01 EST, you write: > > << A cheap wall can be built using 1/4" plywood/masonite, or 3/8" chipboard > as the basic 'flat'. Support it with a larger frame of 2x4s across the > top of the span. Add angle bracing with 2x4, 1x4, 2x2, etc. > Sheetrock/gypsum board screws secure the flats to each other, the top, > and the bracin >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > Is it just the part of the USA I live in? > Steel studs and drywall screws are cheaper > than wood. Lighter, less flammable, > and sometimes much easier to shape and fasten. > > Yours ghouly Jerry - > > @ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ > > ^v^ Esoteric Toys ^v^ > (Creative, Not expensive solutions in special effects.) > Web page: http://members.aol.com/Spookyfx/index.html > > @ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ --'---,--',---@ You must mean steel studs but not sheetrock, but sheetrock screws right. im sure that is what your saying.. so use the steel studs with 1/4 wood with sheetrock screws... -- Iowa Chapman e-mail: iowac@earthlink.net Webpage: http:www.best.com/~iowac/ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Apr 1 06:52:56 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 06:46:10 -0700 Subject: Re: walls To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com If you are building a permanent wall, use deck screws instead of drywall screws. They rust. [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Tue Apr 1 06:58:18 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com