http://members.aol.com/hmpi |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Apr 16 20:16:26 1997 From: Scott Axworthy Subject: More Contest Info (long again) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hey all: I am overwhelmed by the response so far to the proposed Halloween-l contest. Mostly from the number of prizes that have been offered by many of our own Haunt-pros. Thank you all! We currently have more prizes offered than prize categories (and even contest participants!) Due to the response, I am working on a set of more formal rules. I will post these as soon as the details of the categories and prize sponsors are worked out. I do want to clarify a few questions that have popped up though. First, this contest will be focused on the air cannon being used as some sort of effect. If this contest proves itself and everyone enjoys it, we can make the next one a wide open free-for-all. This will test the mechanism and hopefully not scare our sponsors too bad. Next, I will stay on the judges panel as I am *not* participating, except to fling out the challenge and coordinate the effort, and I will appoint several more judges, most likely from our sponsor list. We will be working on providing a web site that can follow the progress of the entrants. After talking with Denny I agree that it will be much more informing, entertaining, and interesting if entries are shown as they are produced and discussions and plagiarism flourish as the contest proceeds. I am *wide open* on suggestions as to the categories in the contest and I will be working with the sponsors to coordinate the prizes with the appropriate categories. I would also like to get a feel for the number of people that would like to participate. If you are going to give it a shot, please drop me a quick e-mail message *OFFLINE* to scott@cdac.com. Here is a draft of the official rules, note that some areas are TBD. -------- April 16, 1997 First Annual, Halloween-l Haunted Gizmo Design Contest! Synopsis: The device, known as an "air cannon" has potential for general haunt use. The potential, as described in a post on the halloween-l list, is for an "Apparatus to project an airbourne, chemically vaporous, spectre-like apparition", (or as it has been fondly referred to as the Ghost o' Matic), or, as a way to whack a haunt patron upside the head, (er, I mean, to provide a harmless physical sensation to a haunt patron as a means of stimulating tactile sensory input thus intensifying the experience.) The device has been described on a web page: http://www.west.net/~science/acannon.htm The Contest: The question posed by the contest is how to effectively use this device in a haunt to produce an interesting ghost-like projectile. Other uses will also be considered. Direct derivations of the device are not only legal, but encouraged. This device is just the starting point, although there must be some direct lineage in concept from this device to be considered in the contest. All decisions by the judges are final in this matter. Specifically: Entries must be received by Midnight, June 25th, 1997. Multiple entries are allowed. Prizes will be awarded in the following categories: To be determined. Entries will be judged based on the following criteria: o Overall effect o Producibility/reproducibility o Ease of use o Creativity o Cost to produce All decisions by the judges are final, this is an informal contest and the rules are subject to change without notice to enforce the concept of this contest as defined here. Entries should include a complete description and picture(s) of a working device. Entries will be submitted to ????. Assistance in picture scanning is available to entrants. All device descriptions and rights belong to the collective halloween-l Internet mail list; Don Bertino, list-owner, benefactor, Pumpkin King, and official representative, presiding. If you intend to sell your concept or device exclusively for your own profits, please do not submit it here. Licensing of any halloween-l owned concepts is available at *very* reasonable rates, with all proceeds directly benefiting the halloween-l medium and mechanism. --------------- -Scott --- Scott Axworthy Phone: 206-649-7668 Cascade Design Automation Fax: 206-649-7600 scott@cdac.com http://www.cdac.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Apr 16 20:21:19 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:32:42 -0700 Subject: Re: First Annual Halloween-l Design Contest (long) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com For the ghost cannon, may I recommend using a ghost gobo as a smoke mask? A gobo is a thin metal disk put into a spotlight to create a pattern. I am of the thinking it might work for a smoke shoot right through it, but air physics may cause the pattern to disintegrate as it interferes with itself.... Harry [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Apr 16 20:25:53 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:36:44 -0700 Subject: Re: First Annual Halloween-l Design Contest (long) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Scott, to control such a pulse of air from a big speaker is an idea, but don't forget that the intertia of the speaker will dampen the sharp puls, along with the inertia of the air. Basically, the resistance to such sharp pulses. Hell of an idea, though :) [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Apr 16 20:57:30 1997 From: BUSH134@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:50:55 -0400 (EDT) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: details Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I just wanted everyone to know that I did type a whole page with the details of the makeup convention, but I don;t know if you ever got it. It could just be traffic, but I don;t know. If this one gets sent before the details, than I will retype the details. If this arrives after the details, please ignore this :) Mike From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Apr 16 21:06:20 1997 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:03:18 -0500 (CDT) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Contest-"off bass" Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I saw this on David Letterman a month or two ago. He had on a science teacher from Naperville IL. (your neck of the woods Denny-maybe you can find out if he has any Halloween interest and recruit him to the list ;) ) The teacher demonstrated the smoke rings with a converted garbage can and was shooting them up to the second balcony. I was wondering at the time if it would work with fog and thanks to Scott we now know. Anyway now for a humble suggestion. I'm neither a musician nor an eng- ineer but it seems to me that an "air cannon" is really sort of a drum with a hole on one side right? Why not convert a large bass drum with a foot pedal for the mechanicals. You could add an air piston,with a solenoid,triggering mechanism etc., to the foot pedal to automate it if you need to. Does this sound right or am I way off bass? ;) JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Apr 16 22:13:44 1997 Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 22:10:54 -0700 From: Death Lord To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: First Annual Halloween-l Design Contest (long) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com htraver@dreamsys.com wrote: > > For the ghost cannon, may I recommend using a ghost gobo as a smoke > mask? A gobo is a thin metal disk put into a spotlight to create a > pattern. I am of the thinking it might work for a smoke shoot right > through it, but air physics may cause the pattern to disintegrate as it > interferes with itself.... > > Harry Larry used that concept right off when first working on this and ending in frustration. However, perhaps this idea could be used in a slightly modified state. Although I have little (okay, absolutely none) working knowlege of atmospheric dynamics, maybe I could venture an uneducated guess that if the "gobo" pattern was made as a tube rather than a disc, the impact of the air hitting the pattern wouldn't cause the ball of air to violently expand on the immediate other side of the pattern which causes the "ring". Fire water at a flat surface that has a hole in it, and the water violently goes into pieces on the opposite side of the hole. Now fire water through a hole the same size, only one that is continous, such as a short length of hose, and then the water doesn't splatter in sudden death, but rahter shoots a great stream. Look at the dancing fountains at Disney. They squirt a measured burst of water through a brass tube and the result is a nice clean chunk of consolidated water that almost looks like a strand of rope. To make a painfully long-winded story drag on even further, Doesn't this sound like the burst of air should then be shot through a length of tube? The length of tube would need be just long enough to eliminate the turbulance and consolidate the air mass. And rather than only a "shot" of air, perhaps a measured amount of air (relatively equal to the mass of air inside the tube) would then create this controlled, ghost-like airmass? But then, that is probably more monkey-bite than theory. Wil -- X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Rest in Peace. The Death Lord http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/haloween.htm X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Apr 16 22:24:02 1997 Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 22:22:19 -0700 From: Death Lord To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: First Annual Halloween-l Design Contest (long) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Oh, and one more thing. (As if that wasn't enough already.) Think along the lines perhaps of a cylinder filled with fog. Then, air pushes a piston quickly from behind which then pushes the largely undisturbed fog through the gobo pattern tube. (I believe that no matter what pattern ever shaped in the tube, the effect would never be anything other than a round blob at best though.) But the pushing of the fog very quickly by a force that wouldn't create much turbulance -- read "not good" -- that could push for a distance, rather than in a sharp burst only. Okay. That's all the rambling for now. Wil X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Rest in Peace. The Death Lord '97 Topic Archives- http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/haloween.htm X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Wed Apr 16 23:53:21 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:59:36 -0700 Subject: Re: First Annual Halloween-l Design Contest (long) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hmmm..... I am familiar with the dancing waters, living about 20 miles from Dizzyland. Combine the tube idea with thge Venturi principle iterated in another message. Basically that a large creation area is then funneled into a tinier tube. The result is the same mass moving at a much higher velocity out of the tube. Perhaps a series of funnels to create the various ghost parts, sort of like a cake frosting nozzle :) Harry in your alley [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 05:24:59 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:18:33 -0400 (EDT) To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Sheila Compton Subject: Re: I burned the hot dogs. Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 09:45 PM 4/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hey all, >Bob Turner of the Haunted Hydro in Fremont Ohio wrote in issue #8 of >Haunted Attraction Magazine that he'd extend free privileges to fellow >owners, and suggested printing dates and locations of readers houses in the >magazine. I'm all for it, however, response has been 'zilch.' I figure >maybe folks don't have their dates and location yet. ( I don't!) ;-) > I thought it was awful generous of him to extend the offer. We'll print >'em if folks send it in! (I figured the Fall issue would be the >appropriate choice.) >I'll put them on the magazine's humble web page too, if we ever get a list >of them! > >By the way, I had a cook out today. It sure was beautiful weather here in >Myrtle Beach, SC. > >Grim and Grinning, >Oliver > >hauntedattr@pelican.net >http://www.pelican.net/hauntedmagazine > >Could you give me the address for that Haunted Attraction Magazine. Thanks in advance. Sheila Compton hycroft@atcon.com > From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 05:31:59 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:24:35 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: First Annual Halloween-l Design Contest (long) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 10:00 PM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote: >At 05:30 PM 4/16/97 -0700, Wil wrote (snipped): >>3)add www to your url reference and it will be an actual link >> >>Thanks again. >>Wil > >Wil, > >Pls explain exactly what you mean by "an actual link" (above). I tried adding the >www to HMPI address and it works, but of what particular value is it to include these three extra characters in the URL? > >My Eudora Pro 3.0 mail pgm highlites... It's a link on my machine but I think it depends on your mail program or browser. Some of the newer programs are better at filling in the blanks. I've noticed some versions of Mosaic couldn't find their way home if you left a trail of bread crumbs for them. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 05:39:03 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:24:33 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: First Annual Halloween-l Design Contest (long) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 08:44 PM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote in part: >To be fair Scotty, I think you should not be a judge, but this is >your brain child, so what ever you guys like.... >Yours ghouly Jerry - Hi all, I certainly don't need to be a judge and would happily help out in any other way possible. I do believe Scott should be a judge. I've known him for three years now and have always been impressed with his fairness, temperament and intuitiveness. Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 05:43:16 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 05:32:42 -0700 From: Brian Rich To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Dayton Gear Motors VS Road Runner Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com david c schwend wrote: > > Brian Rich wrote: > > > > > A good place to buy surplus geared reduction motors is C&H Sales in > > Glendale, CA. > > C & H SALES > 2176 E COLORADO BLVD PASADENA, CA 91107-3653 > (818) 796-2628 (213) 681-4925 > > I visit there often. Lotsa good stuff. Some a bit high priced for what > it is, other stuff at great bargains. They used to have a paper > catalog, but I haven't seen one in years. They still have one. I received one a few weeks ago. -- Brian Wesley Rich http://www.west.net/~science/ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 06:30:14 1997 From: David251@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:23:57 -0400 (EDT) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Haunted Attraction Magazine Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Haunted Attraction Magazine PO Box 451 N. Myrtle Beach, SC 29597 (800) 361-8053 www.pelican.net/hauntedmagazine e-mail hauntedattr@pelican.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 06:50:45 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 06:41:11 -0700 From: Brian Rich To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: First Annual Halloween-l Design Contest Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Here's a suggestion: Ever heard of an over-center device? They are used for lots of things, latches, etc. The air springs in your hatchback vehicle are arranged in an over center configuration. Once you cross center, the force is in an opposite direction. Imagine a disk turned slowly by a rotisserie or gear motor. On this disk, near its edges there are: 1) A lever that pivots on a pin or bearing at one end. So as the disk rotates, it acts like a piston arm. The other end of this lever is attached to the diaphragm of the air cannon. The link to the air cannon needs to be off to the side of the arm, not from the end, or the string (rope, chain) will get tangled up in the mechanism. Also, the diaphragm needs to be spring loaded from the inside of the air cannon, which is easy to do using strong elastic bands or bungee cords. So far, we have something that would act like sort of a bellows unit. It would not have the quick release action we need. Now add: 2) A dowel pin 180 degrees away from the pivot pin. As the disk rotates, the dowel pin will come around to where the lever arm is, and start to twist it around. But as soon as the lever arm crosses over center, it will be pulled away from the dowel pin, and swing rapidly toward the diaphragm of the air cannon. The result: a big whoosh and you have your smoke ring, a.k.a. toroidal vortex, a.k.a. mystifying hand of ghost. NOTE that the "disk' doesn't have to be a disk if the dowel pin is truly 180 degrees away from the pivot pin. It could be a bar with a hole in the mid point for the motor, and the pins at the ends. But with a disk you can try placing the pins at other relative angles to each other. So. There's my entry. Brian Wesley Rich ------------------------------------------------- Visit my amateur science page. Chemicals, sample experiments, and good ideas! http://www.west.net/~science/ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 08:42:08 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:30:27 -0700 From: david c schwend To: Halloween-L Subject: An Interesting Book ... Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com I visited Opamp Technical Books, a few weeks ago, and found an interesting book. It's called "Control Systems for Live Entertainment" and was written by John Huntington. Paperback, published by Focal Press, copyright 1994, $47.95 plus tax. No plans to build "Haunted Smoke Bombers", or even "Dancing Dead Dummies". It mainly focuses on the various show control standards, and the devices that use them. Basics, DMX, SMPTE time code, MIDI, SDX, MSC 2.0, lighting, sound, projection, computer control, etc. Probably not for the non-technically inclined. Opamp Technical Books 1033 North Sycamore Avenue Los Angeles, CA, 90038 (800)468-4322, (213)464-4322 Monday - Saturday 8:00am to 5:30PM (Pacific) http://www.opampbooks.com/ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 09:03:28 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:55:42 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Contest-"off bass" Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 11:03 PM 4/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >I saw this on David Letterman a month or two ago. He had on a science >teacher from Naperville IL. (your neck of the woods Denny-maybe you >can find out if he has any Halloween interest and recruit him to the >list ;) ) Yup, a bunch of nutty people living in Naperville. They're not like us. ;) >The teacher demonstrated the smoke rings with a converted >garbage can and was shooting them up to the second balcony. For people thinking about trying this effect out and getting into the contest a good place to start is with a 5 gallon plastic bucket. Paint, wall joint compound, latex, food stuff, etc. comes in these. Home Depot also sells these buckets empty in the paint department. You can cutting the "exhaust" hole in the bottom and replace the lid with a rubber diaphragm. The exhaust hole can be cut on the large side and then shuttered down with taped on pieces of cardboard to experiment with the size and shape. > Why not convert a large bass drum with... Very cool, lots of air and sound.?? Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 09:58:25 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:51:40 -0500 From: David Kiihne To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Contest-"off bass" -Reply (and some banter) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 11:03 PM 4/16/97 -0500, you wrote: > Why not convert a large bass drum with... Speaking as a former percussionist (many, MANY moons ago), I do have a few thoughts on this idea that may or may not be worthwhile. You can decide. Thought Number 1: "WHAT!?!?!? YOU WANT TO MUTILATE THAT WONDERFUL MUSICAL INSTRUMENT?!?!?! ARE YOU INSANE?!?!" ...OK, so that was more of a knee-jerk psychotic drummer over-reaction than a worthwhile thought. I'm over it now. Moving on... Thought Number 2: Assuming that I'm remembering my "Membrane Percussion Instrument Theory" correctly... The bigger the hole you cut into the drum head (*sniffle*), the more it will affect the smoke volume and the sound quality. The "puff" will gradually change from being smaller and dense to larger and not-so-dense. The sound will degrade (musically, speaking) from the high quality tone the instrument was intended to produce to a far-less-musical thud, thump, or thwap. (Note the awe-inspiring musical terminology) Of course this is a haunt and not a symphony, so the mutant sound it creates may actually be desirable for your usage. Thought Number 3: Get a drum key from your local music supply store, if you don't already have one. The drum key is used to turn the "bolts" around the rim of the drum head to adjust the surface tension. This will affect the tone and may have some influence over the smoke volume. Experiment with the tension on both heads to see what works best. Word Of Caution Number 1: Be careful when tightening the punctured drum head because it will be just that easier to split with the big ol' hole in it. Use the "Lug Nut Pattern" (1 O'Clock, 7 O'Clock, 2 O'Clock, 8 O'Clock,...) and tighten in quarter-turn increments or less. This should tighten the head slowly and evenly and help prevent "The Big Rip" rendering the head useless. Word Of Caution Number 2: Never, EVER, tell an active, practicing drummer what you did to that instrument. UNLESS, of course, you have a desire to see another human being either A) crumple pathetically to the ground in a whimpering mound of sobbing flesh or B) launch into a psychotic rage annihilating every living organism within a 500 meter radius. But that's your call. :) As I said, it's been quite a while since I was an active, practicing drummer (though not long enough to suppress the maniacal scream in Thought Number 1, apparently), so if there are any other active drummers on the list (who haven't slipped into a trauma-induced coma), please correct any inaccuracies in my theories. Good Luck and let me know how it works. I'm not sure I'd be able to hack away at a drum myself, so I'll be curious to find out the results. :) Dave - daveki@nebfef.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 11:52:22 1997 From: Scott Axworthy Subject: Re: Air Cannon (long winded again) To: hlist@ember.cdac.com, halloween-l@netcom.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:48:41 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com So many posts, so many ideas... Here is my condensed response: Harry with gobo masks: > For the ghost cannon, may I recommend using a ghost gobo as a smoke > mask? A gobo is a thin metal disk put into a spotlight to create a > pattern. I am of the thinking it might work for a smoke shoot right > through it, but air physics may cause the pattern to disintegrate as it > interferes with itself.... Total interference, I tried similar concepts. JD on percussion: > Anyway now for a humble suggestion. I'm neither a musician nor an eng- > ineer but it seems to me that an "air cannon" is really sort of a drum > with a hole on one side right? Why not convert a large bass drum with > a foot pedal for the mechanicals. You could add an air piston,with a > solenoid,triggering mechanism etc., to the foot pedal to automate it > if you need to. Does this sound right or am I way off bass? ;) Intriguing idea, I was a drummer in a former life but didn't think of this connection. An off-the-shelf pedal takes a good deal of power to get moving, but gives a perfect thump to the head. It would produce a very high impulse, but not a lot of air movement. With a very loose drum head, you might get a little more. It would take a heck of a solenoid to pull a standard drum pedal though. Harry venturi effects: > Hmmm..... I am familiar with the dancing waters, living about 20 miles > from Dizzyland. Combine the tube idea with thge Venturi principle > iterated in another message. Basically that a large creation area is > then funneled into a tinier tube. The result is the same mass moving at > a much higher velocity out of the tube. Perhaps a series of funnels to > create the various ghost parts, sort of like a cake frosting nozzle :) I don't think this principle will apply to air flow, at least with the principles we are dealing with in this effect. We don't have a viscous medium like water. I'll try to explain what I am getting at below. Brian Rich on over-center: > Ever heard of an over-center device? They are used for lots of things, > latches, etc. The air springs in your hatchback vehicle are arranged in > an over center configuration. Once you cross center, the force is in an > opposite direction. > ... > the mid point for the motor, and the pins at the ends. But with a disk > you can try placing the pins at other relative angles to each other. I like it, I know what you are getting at and it could be a good trigger mechanism. My only problem would be that it has to cycle completely before its ready to fire again. I wonder if the whole thing could be sped up. Wil on "barrel" patterns vs. "gate-like" patterns > Larry used that concept right off when first working on this and ending > in frustration. However, perhaps this idea could be used in a slightly > modified state. Although I have little (okay, absolutely none) working > knowlege of atmospheric dynamics, maybe I could venture an uneducated > guess that if the "gobo" pattern was made as a tube rather than a disc, > the impact of the air hitting the pattern wouldn't cause the ball of air > to violently expand on the immediate other side of the pattern which > causes the "ring". I tried similar concepts with this as well, no go. I'll touch on this as well below. ------ Here is my take on two things that seem to take place with the air cannon. There are two independant actions happening when a ring is launched. First, a large volume of air is moving slowly and being force out a smaller opening causing acceleration, just as many have stated. An air vortex occurs in a ring shape at the opening. I really don't know what causes the vortex itself, I'm severely confused because the hole shape (given that it is of sufficiently large area) does not seem to matter. Anyway, the air vortex (the ring) is spinning very rapidly. This vortex, appears to me, to be independant of the velocity that the ring is moving through the air. In other words, I think the vortex velocity may be independent of the rings linear velocity. A cannon that works well may be optimizing the vortex spin with the gun like muzzel velocity. The crux of this statement is that it is very important to set up the vortex spin of the ring. Given the wrong gate, such as a gobo and maybe even the barrel shaped pattern, it may be destroying the vortex even though you achieve a very linear high speed air flow. Some of my attempts produced a just a big puff. They were all velocity and no vortex. I noticed that anytime you take a big volume and try to push it out too small a hole, it would puff. Much like an atomizer effect, different air dynamics take over. So there is my unscientific .02 cents, and for the record, my money is on the speaker-air-plunger trigger. It just seems so elegant a solution. I still haven't heard from too many participants. If we don't get enough we won't have much of a contest. -Scott -- Scott Axworthy Phone: 206-649-7668 Cascade Design Automation Fax: 206-649-7600 scott@cdac.com http://www.cdac.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 13:02:03 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:53:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Bell To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Air Cannon (long winded yet again) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hi, gang! Well, this has certainly fired up the List! A great new effect, with countless applications... As for the orifice and shaping a "ghost", I think Scott explained it extremely well: (with my own interpolations added) > There are two independant actions happening when a ring is launched. > First, a large volume of air is moving slowly and being force out a > smaller opening causing acceleration, just as many have stated. > An air vortex occurs in a ring shape at the opening. This vortex is the key to the whole effect. It is also evident in "conventional" aerodynamics. For instance, wing-tip vortices "thrown off" by planes retain their integrity for amazing distances and durations. There's enough energy in these babies to nearly flip a small plane encountering one. Invisible to the naked eye, slowly expanding as they lose energy to the surrounding air. > I really don't know what causes the vortex itself, I'm severely confused > because the hole shape (given that it is of sufficiently large area) > does not seem to matter. As for cause, I'm hazy on the theory, but if you think of the main stream of air "dragging" the surrounding air into it, and imparting a rolling motion to a torus of air, it makes sense. Once started, whatever the original shape, it also makes sense that it would very quickly decay to a circular shape, as the most "economical" form. > Anyway, the air vortex (the ring) is spinning very rapidly. This > vortex, appears to me, to be independant of the velocity that the ring > is moving through the air. If not independant, it *is* a lot higher than the forward velocity... Basically, I think any attempt to make a non-circular single vortex is doomed. Also, it looks empirically like multiple vortices in a single plane quickly interfere with each other and either merge or are destroyed. I'm sticking with the concept of one or more pulses in a line, maybe of different speed-affected sizes/velocities. Dave - working on waveforms for that "kicker"! From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 13:27:44 1997 From: mheinze@donedeal.encore.com Subject: Re: Air Cannon (long winded again) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Scott Axworthy said: > The crux of this statement is that it is very important to set up the > vortex spin of the ring. Given the wrong gate, such as a gobo and > maybe even the barrel shaped pattern, it may be destroying the vortex > even though you achieve a very linear high speed air flow. So far everyone has a single gate. I haven't had the time or equipment to put something like this together so I'm not sure of the size of the ring. However, would it be possible to have several "nozzles" arranged so that an interesting pattern forms? If it can be arranged so the vortexes don't interfere with each other then maybe you could "draw" something with several circles. Mickey Mouse immediately come to my mind... How about the death of the Mouse? Or a ghostly snowman? Can you control the size of the ring (vortex)? (This would provide more flexibility with "drawing".) With the woofer idea and dynamic openings maybe you can space the vortexes close enough together so that the rings would partially overlap (spacing in the Z axis but not X or Y) allowing you to "draw" more complex shapes... (A cartoon drawing book I once had started every item with overlapping circles.) My over-active imagination is picturing a camera-like system that has shutters openning and closing as a woofer rapidly pulses 3 circles. The openings have simple valves so they work like a bicycle pump to prevent the just released vortex from being sucked back into the chamber. Then a ghostly Mouse head floats directly towards you... (or 10 circles as a vaguely human shape floats towards you...) OK, so this doesn't exactly satisfy the "simple" notion, but maybe it will generate some more ideas... -mark Encore Computer Corporation 901 Kildaire Farm Rd. - Bldg. D Mark Heinze Cary, NC 27511 email: mheinze@encore.com Telephone: (919) 481-3730 From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 14:16:40 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:59:27 -0400 From: Derek Schwab To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Contest-"off bass" Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Sounds like a good idea, but it would be complicated to build a device to strike the drum with enough force to shoot the smoke ring long distances John Dolan wrote: > > I saw this on David Letterman a month or two ago. He had on a science > teacher from Naperville IL. (your neck of the woods Denny-maybe you > can find out if he has any Halloween interest and recruit him to the > list ;) ) The teacher demonstrated the smoke rings with a converted > garbage can and was shooting them up to the second balcony. I was > wondering at the time if it would work with fog and thanks to Scott > we now know. > Anyway now for a humble suggestion. I'm neither a musician nor an eng- > ineer but it seems to me that an "air cannon" is really sort of a drum > with a hole on one side right? Why not convert a large bass drum with > a foot pedal for the mechanicals. You could add an air piston,with a > solenoid,triggering mechanism etc., to the foot pedal to automate it > if you need to. Does this sound right or am I way off bass? ;) > JD > jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 14:28:04 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:17:19 -0400 From: Derek Schwab To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: First Annual Halloween-l Design Contest (long) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Death Lord wrote: > > htraver@dreamsys.com wrote: > > > > For the ghost cannon, may I recommend using a ghost gobo as a smoke > > mask? A gobo is a thin metal disk put into a spotlight to create a > > pattern. I am of the thinking it might work for a smoke shoot right > > through it, but air physics may cause the pattern to disintegrate as it > > interferes with itself.... > > > > Harry > > Larry used that concept right off when first working on this and ending > in frustration. However, perhaps this idea could be used in a slightly > modified state. Although I have little (okay, absolutely none) working > knowlege of atmospheric dynamics, maybe I could venture an uneducated > guess that if the "gobo" pattern was made as a tube rather than a disc, > the impact of the air hitting the pattern wouldn't cause the ball of air > to violently expand on the immediate other side of the pattern which > causes the "ring". > > Fire water at a flat surface that has a hole in it, and the water > violently goes into pieces on the opposite side of the hole. Now fire > water through a hole the same size, only one that is continous, such as > a short length of hose, and then the water doesn't splatter in sudden > death, but rahter shoots a great stream. Look at the dancing fountains > at Disney. They squirt a measured burst of water through a brass tube > and the result is a nice clean chunk of consolidated water that almost > looks like a strand of rope. > > To make a painfully long-winded story drag on even further, Doesn't > this sound like the burst of air should then be shot through a length of > tube? The length of tube would need be just long enough to eliminate the > turbulance and consolidate the air mass. And rather than only a "shot" > of air, perhaps a measured amount of air (relatively equal to the mass > of air inside the tube) would then create this controlled, ghost-like > airmass? > > But then, that is probably more monkey-bite than theory. > > Wil > -- > X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X > Rest in Peace. > > The Death Lord > http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/haloween.htm > X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X The gobo would have to be a solid cylinder several inches long with pattern cut all the way through it. This would probably be hard to do. You could make several identical gobos out of plasic or wood aprox. 1-1.5 inches thick (these could easily be cut with a scroll saw) stacked to produce the desired thickness. If a thin gobo was positioned at the end of a hollow tube, the smoke would probably still spread and diffuse. From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 14:30:46 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:22:02 -0700 From: Greenrey To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Contest-"off bass" (more banter), and MIDI Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com David Kiihne wrote: > Thought Number 1: "WHAT!?!?!? YOU WANT TO MUTILATE THAT WONDERFUL MUSICAL > INSTRUMENT?!?!?! ARE YOU INSANE?!?!" ...OK, so that was more of a knee-jerk > psychotic drummer over-reaction than a worthwhile thought. I'm over it now. (snip snip) > Word Of Caution Number 2: Never, EVER, tell an active, practicing drummer > what you did to that instrument. UNLESS, of course, you have a desire to see > another human being either A) crumple pathetically to the ground in a > whimpering mound of sobbing flesh or B) launch into a psychotic rage > annihilating every living organism within a 500 meter radius. Hey Dave-- Thanks for helping me prove to a friend of mine that drummers really ARE off in their own little worlds. (Mind you, I'm normal. My instruments of choice are piano and 5-string bass.) When it comes to eccentricity, drummers make the Jacksons look like well-adjusted individuals. Speaking of music, I'm in the process of putting together a Halloween MIDI page. It's not up yet, but I think I have about 25 pretty good MIDI tunes. If anyone has MIDIs that are just absolutely spectacular, go ahead mailto:greenrey@worldnet.att.net and let me know what you have. Best to all, Kevan -- "When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout." --Robert Heinlein greenrey@worldnet.att.net -or- awynnhi@kes.miracosta.cc.ca.us Visit Greenrey's Study at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1982/ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 14:44:18 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:30:29 -0400 From: Derek Schwab To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Air Cannon (long winded again) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com mheinze@donedeal.encore.com wrote: > > Scott Axworthy said: > > The crux of this statement is that it is very important to set up the > > vortex spin of the ring. Given the wrong gate, such as a gobo and > > maybe even the barrel shaped pattern, it may be destroying the vortex > > even though you achieve a very linear high speed air flow. > > So far everyone has a single gate. I haven't had the time or equipment > to put something like this together so I'm not sure of the size of the > ring. However, would it be possible to have several "nozzles" arranged > so that an interesting pattern forms? > > If it can be arranged so the vortexes don't interfere with each other > then maybe you could "draw" something with several circles. Mickey > Mouse immediately come to my mind... How about the death of the Mouse? > Or a ghostly snowman? > > Can you control the size of the ring (vortex)? (This would provide > more flexibility with "drawing".) > > With the woofer idea and dynamic openings maybe you can space the > vortexes close enough together so that the rings would partially > overlap (spacing in the Z axis but not X or Y) allowing you to > "draw" more complex shapes... > > (A cartoon drawing book I once had started every item with > overlapping circles.) > > My over-active imagination is picturing a camera-like system that has > shutters openning and closing as a woofer rapidly pulses 3 circles. The > openings have simple valves so they work like a bicycle pump to prevent > the just released vortex from being sucked back into the chamber. > Then a ghostly Mouse head floats directly towards you... > > (or 10 circles as a vaguely human shape floats towards you...) > > OK, so this doesn't exactly satisfy the "simple" notion, but maybe it > will generate some more ideas... > > -mark > Encore Computer Corporation > 901 Kildaire Farm Rd. - Bldg. D > Mark Heinze Cary, NC 27511 > email: mheinze@encore.com Telephone: (919) 481-3730 How about using a single blob of smoke with a spotlight and gobo to project an image on it? From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 14:58:27 1997 From: ScaryHouse@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:51:37 -0400 (EDT) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: First Annual Halloween-l Design Contest (long) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Greetings from ScaryHouse Studio!!! I don't know why this particular reply to the air cannon/ghost 'o' matic dare made me think of this, it's not really a potential answer. but: Years ago, an old girlfriend and I were walking around her neighborhood late, late one night. Of course, I was telling horror stories, trying to freak her out. We heard a slight wooshing noise and turned around to see two columns of steam/smoke gently floating toward us. They had erupted from the lever hole of a manhole cover. it was a very still night and this steam poofed up and the ever so slight breeze pushed them along without disrupting them. They were caught in the glow of some blueish/white street lamp and sort of glowed. Anyway after all my tall tales of eviseration, ghosts and such, seeing these two ghostly plumes moving toward us gave me the willies. Had the same effect on my girlfriend too. We ran away. It was such a freakish thing, I don't see how one could recreate in a haunt with all the people moving around, air condi tioning, etc. I just wanted to share that. Happy Haunting!!! "Scary" Dan Gildea, ScaryHouse Studio, Box 15377, Rockford IL 61132, scaryhouse@aol.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 15:10:32 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:56:10 -0500 From: David Kiihne To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Contest-"off bass" (more banter) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >>> Greenrey 04/17/97 02:22pm >>> > ... When it comes to >eccentricity, drummers make the Jacksons look like well-adjusted >individuals. Hey, I resemble that remark! ;) Besides, I always found the Lower Brass section to be just as strange as the drummers with a touch of vulgarity and sexism to boot. Actually, I'm just plain weird for far more reasons than just being a drummer. Just for fun, let's tally up here, shall we: 1. Drummer/Musician 2. Magician 3. Computer Nerd (ahem, I mean, "Comp-U-Stud"), i.e., Programmer 4. Preacher's Kid 5. Sci-Fi Reader/Watcher ("Space Cadet") 6. Bookworm Oh, yeah... And, lest we forget... 7. Subscriber (and, occasionally even contributor) to Halloween-L!!! Now, if THAT little collection doesn't qualify me as a charter member of the Psychosis of the Month Club, I don't know WHAT does!! :) Dave - daveki@nebfef.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 15:29:56 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:20:15 -0700 From: Scott Axworthy To: halloween-l@netcom.com, Scott Axworthy Subject: Re: Air Cannon (long winded again) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com mheinze@donedeal.encore.com wrote: > So far everyone has a single gate. I haven't had the time or equipment > to put something like this together so I'm not sure of the size of the > ring. However, would it be possible to have several "nozzles" arranged > so that an interesting pattern forms? > I have tried the mutliple nozzles as well. This works as long as they have their own gates. So in effect I had a big air chamber driving rwo smaller air chambers, each with their own (smaller) opening. This was pretty good until the rings hit and you lose the vortex. ...deleted... > Can you control the size of the ring (vortex)? (This would provide > more flexibility with "drawing".) > Now this is intriguing, I hadn't thought of this yet either. How about an iris that would allow gating control. The tricky part is then controlling the amount of air flow, I presume a smaller ring will come out with a greater velocity than a large ring given the same trigger. > With the woofer idea and dynamic openings maybe you can space the > vortexes close enough together so that the rings would partially > overlap (spacing in the Z axis but not X or Y) allowing you to > "draw" more complex shapes... Possible, I also noticed that when I shot multiple close shots, it almost seemed to put a little english on the rings as they were near each other. The rings would then curve more as they progressed. > > (A cartoon drawing book I once had started every item with > overlapping circles.) > > My over-active imagination is picturing a camera-like system that has > shutters openning and closing as a woofer rapidly pulses 3 circles. The > openings have simple valves so they work like a bicycle pump to prevent > the just released vortex from being sucked back into the chamber. > Then a ghostly Mouse head floats directly towards you... > > (or 10 circles as a vaguely human shape floats towards you...) > > OK, so this doesn't exactly satisfy the "simple" notion, but maybe it > will generate some more ideas... I like it, some kind of bizzare, segmented-ghost-worm-vortex-tube sailing through 3-space. Now all you have to do is make it :-) -Scott (P.S. Anyone have a 12" diameter iris sitting around) From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 15:51:07 1997 From: Scott Axworthy Subject: Contest in Peril! To: halloween-l@netcom.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:34:52 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hey all: The contest is on shakey ground at the moment. While we have had a terrific sponsor response and a tremendous amount of list activity, I have only had one person send me a reply that they are going to really participate. I need to hear from a few more real soon lest we let this die on the vine. Send me mail *OFFLINE* to scott@cdac.com if you want to really give it a shot. -Scott -- Scott Axworthy Phone: 206-649-7668 Cascade Design Automation Fax: 206-649-7600 scott@cdac.com http://www.cdac.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 17:47:26 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:44:42 -0700 From: Wil To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Air Cannon (long winded again) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com mheinze@donedeal.encore.com wrote: > With the woofer idea and dynamic openings maybe you can space the > vortexes close enough together so that the rings would partially > overlap (spacing in the Z axis but not X or Y) allowing you to > "draw" more complex shapes... > > (A cartoon drawing book I once had started every item with > overlapping circles.) -- Perhaps it should have occurred to me before my rediculous discourse on the tube theory, but reading this has brought it back. Speaking finally from experience with thse vortexes of air from the time I spent smoking cigarrettes--my smoke rings disintegrated upon collision with another smoke ring or anything else for that matter. I know this seems pretty petty, but you have to realize that I have played with many thousands of smoke rings. It was a past-time of mine that invloved nearly every dragg off of tens of thousands of cancer sticks for many years (At least it wasn't crack, okay?), which I think was induced by friends of mine telling me you could win 10 grand in Las Vegas if you could blow two smoke rings (one inside the other one) at the same time. I spent 10 thousand hours trying to do it (which would have been ironic hourly wages, had I ever succeeded anyway). The vortex will work this way, but not at the same moment. What I mean is I could only produce this by blowing two rings a split second apart, and then there was always one traveling faster than the other one. If the rings were blown to travel roughly the same speed by the time they met up with each other, in order to suspend the image of two smoke rings, one inside of the other, the the rings would disintegrate as mentioned above. It seems that the turbulance that each ring creates rips at the air around it. There was no such thing as a "square" or "oval" or "oblong" smoke ring untill the ring began to die. By the time it took on any other shape than round, it had already lost all of its momentum and then basically floated. This would be a good "ghostly" appearance, however, the image and shape it would go into would choose its own shape according to the air movements it would run into. Any breeze at all then would cause it to vaporize. Although this was on a very trite scale compared to what the list is looking at, I believe that the properties of air turbulance would be the same or at least very close. I realize this will not be the last word on this subject, but I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts that no matter what happens, no one on this list or anywhere else will be able to emulate in any other shape the relative same ability of the smoke "ring" to cut through air and carry the fog great distances. IMHO Wil X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Rest in Peace Death Lord '97 Topic Archives- http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/haloween.htm X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 18:17:18 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:10:28 -0500 (CDT) From: John Dolan To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Contest-"off bass" (long) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, David Kiihne wrote: > At 11:03 PM 4/16/97 -0500, you wrote: > > Why not convert a large bass drum with... > > Speaking as a former percussionist (many, MANY moons ago), I do have a few > thoughts on this idea that may or may not be worthwhile. You can decide. > > Thought Number 1: "WHAT!?!?!? YOU WANT TO MUTILATE THAT WONDERFUL MUSICAL > INSTRUMENT?!?!?! ARE YOU INSANE?!?!" ...OK, so that was more of a knee-jerk > psychotic drummer over-reaction than a worthwhile thought. I'm over it now. (snip) Uh-oh I've managed to offend another group!;) I guess Kathy doesn't need to worry about this list becoming known as a group of friendly, helping individuals as long as I'm around to constantly manage to (unintention- ally) cause trouble!;) But seriously I didn't mean to imply using a real nice musical instrument for this suggestion. I'm sure the cost factor alone would make it a prohibitive solution. I was thinking more along the lines of an el cheapo kiddie version, a regular garage sale special. The version that has probably already been damaged by an over exuberate tyke. A few more comments on this suggestion- If the "drumskin" on the strike side was replaced with more of an elastic,latex type skin, one could possibily stretch it out a little by attatching it directly to the "mallet" (right term?) of the foot pedal. This would possibly give you more air movement and elimate the sound factor. The air piston would drive the pedal, replacing the manual foot movement (don't the kiddie versions move way too easily anyway?).A bleeder valve would return the pedal to the "normal" position. The solenoid is only used to control the burst of air. In all fairness I must state that I've never built a pnuematic device, I'm just trying to incorporate some of the great ideas from other projects on this list for this application. Assuming this could work (and that's a big IF!), and forgetting about the automated portion of this design, a possible application comes to mind. If you had a fairly long room this could potentially be used as a great effect. Imagine a witch,wizard,sorcerer etc, positioned at a table. The drum is hidden under the table with a table cloth decorated in large black polka dots. One of the "dots" is your actual exit hole. The wizard (or whoever) is in the process of casting a spell. He/She notices the intrusion of the patrons,becomes annoyed at the violation of the sacred ritual and casts a curse at the victims. The wizard points his magical staff at the victims and a bright flash occurs (pyrotechnics would be great but even the single pulse of a strobe would work).This is meant to temporarily disorient the patrons and hide the actual source of the smoke ring.Just as the victims recover from the flash they visibly notice the "curse" traveling towards them (this of course is produced by the actor using the footpedal). I imagine this would send most of your patrons scampering not wanting to actually be physically hit by the on- coming "curse" (smoke ring). Just a thought, JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 18:21:02 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:19:04 +0100 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: makeup@earthlink.net (Tad Peters) Subject: Re: First Annual Halloween-l Design Contest (long) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >Anyway after all my tall tales of eviseration, ghosts and such, seeing these >two ghostly plumes moving toward us gave me the willies. Had the same effect >on my girlfriend too. We ran away. It was such a freakish thing, I don't see >how one could recreate in a haunt with all the people moving around, air condi >tioning, etc. > >I just wanted to share that. > >Happy Haunting!!! >"Scary" Dan Gildea, >ScaryHouse Studio, >Box 15377, >Rockford IL 61132, >scaryhouse@aol.com 2 things about these stories. #1 they are always similar to the car rolling up hill and #2 they always happen when your girlfriend is around. Tad Peters A. Harlequin Costume makeup@earthlink.net 9589 Foothill Blvd tpeters@webbwerks.com Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730 http://www.costumemagic.com (909) 948-2950 From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 18:43:26 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:44:44 -0700 Subject: Re: Air Cannon (long winded again) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Somehow, this contest is reminding me of the classic "Glider Gun" contest for the game of Life.... (anyone remember that contest? :) Harry ps: it's a hacker thang... [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 19:06:30 1997 From: DWFWW@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:01:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Dayton Gear Motors VS Road Runner To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Sorry I'm late answering... my mother just had surgery. >Then do you think that 10 rpm is too fast? Not really... the ghost will cycle every 6 seconds, and it will look rather active. I would prefer it to run a little slower, but the look is up to you. In the book, I will elaborate on the speed issue, to make sure builders are aware of this. If you have a choice, get a slower motor, and be careful using that light dimmer... I am not a fan of using them as motor speed controls. -Doug From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 19:36:24 1997 From: DWFWW@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:31:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Contest-"off bass" To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >Sounds like a good idea, but it would be complicated to build a device to strike the drum with enough force to shoot the smoke ring long distances The Halloween-L door-closer pneumatic actuator running on about 30 PSI through the proper linkage could kick a drum awesomely. You just need a solenoid valve and a bleeder assembly. Connect to an appropriate trigger, and it's automatic. -Doug *********************************************************************** * Safety, Courtesy, Show and Efficiency: * Doug Ferguson * * The Keys To The Kingdom * dwfww@jazz.ucc.uno.edu * * Phantasmechanics website - http://members.aol.com/phanmech/ * * Personal website - http://members.aol.com/orniske/ * *********************************************************************** From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 20:12:50 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:10:36 -0400 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: hauntedattr@pelican.net (Oliver Holler) Subject: Rum-pa-pum-pum. . . Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Dave wrote: >As I said, it's been quite a while since I was an active, practicing drummer Hmmm, so I guess you won't be needing that drum in yer closet. . . :) Oliver hauntedattr@pelican.net http://www.pelican.net/hauntedmagazine From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Thu Apr 17 20:13:36 1997 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:10:40 -0400 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: hauntedattr@pelican.net (Oliver Holler) Subject: Holey ghosts. . . Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Scott wrote: > Anyone have a 12" diameter iris sitting around) Theatrical 'follow spots' use them. . . (may not be that big however.) Some of the older theatre lights used an iris on the front as an attachment. I've got an old rusty no-name antique '1000 watt spot' in the garage. The 6" iris operates with a stick off to the side. You could also change hole diameters by putting different hole sizes on a rotating 'color changer wheel' attachment on the front of the fog chamber. hauntedattr@pelican.net http://www.pelican.net/hauntedmagazine From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 04:29:01 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 06:14:44 -0400 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Gary Engle Subject: Re: Air Cannon Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Although I'll be a sideliner on the contest because I don't have a smoke machine _yet_ to play with, and the toxic fume smoke wouldn't be good for me either, I did build the air cannon the other night and have been playing with it. My question to the people participating is, how are you putting the smoke in the chamber. ( just holding the front of the machine to the opening, while experimenting ) Will feeding the cannon with smoke be dealt with later? I would think that feeding the smoke from the side of the cannon would kill the pressure needed to shoot the blast. So does this mean you would need a smoke machine dedicated to this effect and not be able to use it for other effects. I also would like to thank the contributors of the prizes for their support of the contest. ...Gary gengle@erols.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 06:21:13 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 06:24:41 -0700 From: Iowa Chapman To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Pneumatic devices/solenods Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Ok folks, I was thinking about where to get a Pneumatic air valve solenoid, and I remembered something that could solve everyone's problem on finding one, and could be alot cheaper. I remembered that a Air Horn I had in my truck had a little deal that pumped out air, it was bingo controled by a dc source which im sure could be done also by ac, you press the horn and it sent a blast of air to the horns. If you do not think these things pump out some air you try to go up to one of those horns and blow on it, you would nto even come close to making it toot. I think this could be the perfect soloution for everyone, the device is very small, is controlled by dc/ac and should have no problems blasting out enough air to lift something as long as it does not weigh a ton. Im going to find out this weekend. If any of you think this could work too, if you can try it and let me know what you find out. remember, the air horns with the device that blows air. You will know as it has a air tube to connect from the device to the horn. From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 06:40:09 1997 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:07:54 -0700 From: Michael Marcrum To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: details Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Mike, I did not receive the information!! My mail has been a mess for days...if it is not to much of a problem could you please send me another post. thanks Kathy the new kid on the crypt mmarcrum@ix.netcom.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 08:20:09 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:15:06 -0700 From: Wil To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: CHARITABLE CONTRIBUTIONS Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hey all. I thought I would accept donations for a local shelter for my home haunt this year. Does any of you have any info on this? I'm interested in; 1) Does accepting contributions for a tax-deductible organization expose me to becoming any kind of business in any way? 2) Would I be able to finance any of my props and events using part of the initial proceeds? (Not my real reason for suggesting the donations, but rather an automatic question after deciding to do such.) 3) Should I ask the organization to become involved in any way? (Battered Women & Children) 4) Does accepting these doanations expose me to further liabilites? 5) Would the potential cost of a buck or two turn off 'weenies, or encourage them to show up to check it out? Thanks in advance for your input. -- Wil X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Rest in Peace Death Lord '97 Topic Archives- http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/haloween.htm X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 09:44:48 1997 From: Davis_Karen To: "'halloween-l'" Subject: cars uphill was FW: First Annual Halloween-l Design Contest Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:40:30 -0400 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com tad, >#1 they are always similar to the car rolling >up hill ...ummmm,...hate to tell you this, fella, but i've been to lake wales, florida...home of 'spook hill' where the cars DO roll uphill...plus, lauren, several other friends and i, sought out and found a 'spook hill' place here in maryland...northwest of frederick...where it happens also... ...as dave barry says...i am not making this up... karen From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 11:11:07 1997 From: milwiron@btprod.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:02:57 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: cars uphill/banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 12:40 PM 4/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >tad, > >>#1 they are always similar to the car rolling >>up hill > >...ummmm,...hate to tell you this, fella, but i've been to lake wales, >florida...home of 'spook hill' where the cars DO roll uphill... Ahhh the laws of physics, where are they when you need 'em? And why do I always have to abide by them? Even stranger than rolling uphill- Around this area, cars driven by little, gray haired people (aliens? religious cult? both?) mysteriously turn left just in front of oncoming traffic. The car's turn signals never seem to be functioning properly, possibly because of electromagnetic interference. It always happens when I'm on the sled going 40 or 50 and usually on Saturdays or Sundays (except this morning). Physics books are at a loss trying to explain this phenomena. Oh well, back to being stuck here by gravity. :( Denny B.T. Productions' Terror By Design Haunt Supplies & Scare Wares From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 11:32:01 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:53:43 -0500 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: "John P. Jeffries" Subject: Re: cars uphill/banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Denny wrote: > It always happens when I'm on the sled going 40 or 50 and usually on >Saturdays or Sundays (except this morning). Physics books are at a loss >trying to explain this phenomena. Denny, I hate to be the one to break it to ya bud, but today is Friday (isn't it?) :) OH NO! It's that "lost time" syndrome! Aarrgh! John ********************************* * Mr.Scary Productions * * http://www.mrscary.com * * E-mail: mrscary@kiva.net * * 1-812-824-8935 * * FAX: 1-812-824-9960 * ********************************* From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 12:01:46 1997 To: halloween-l From: William E Rompala Date: 18 Apr 97 14:53:44 EDT Subject: A nice diversion for the weekend.. Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >From the 'Shareware of the Day' by PC World magazine. "Zombie Wars In this sequel to Halloween Harry and Alien Carnage, it's the day before Halloween and the aliens who attacked Earth three years ago is back. This time they're nastier and meaner than ever. http://www.pcworld.com/cgi-bin/shareware?ID=3307 " Mwahahahahahahaa.. -W William Rompala http://www.rompalaconsulting.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 12:50:46 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:33:21 -0700 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: Tracy Miller Subject: Re: cars uphill/banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com At 01:02 PM 4/18/97 -0500, you wrote: >Even stranger than rolling uphill- > Around this area, cars driven by little, gray haired people (aliens? >religious cult? both?) mysteriously turn left just in front of oncoming >traffic. The car's turn signals never seem to be functioning properly, >possibly because of electromagnetic interference. Hmmm....I've experienced this not-uncommon-enough phenomenon. It resulted in $1800 in body work. Where is Fox Mulder when you need him?! Tracy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Tracy Miller tmiller@haas.berkeley.edu http://www.haas.berkeley.edu/~tmiller/home.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 13:13:39 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:08:09 -0700 From: Iowa Chapman To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: cars uphill was FW: First Annual Halloween-l Design Contest Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Davis_Karen wrote: > > tad, > > >#1 they are always similar to the car rolling > >up hill > > ...ummmm,...hate to tell you this, fella, but i've been to lake wales, > florida...home of 'spook hill' where the cars DO roll uphill...plus, > lauren, several other friends and i, sought out and found a 'spook hill' > place here in maryland...northwest of frederick...where it happens > also... > ...as dave barry says...i am not making this up... > karen We have a place here in California called "The Mystry Spot" where odd things like this happen in this area.. balls roll uphill, and the gravity is just different in this little spot.. it was very wierd.. but you could tell the difference.. pretty cool actually. -- Iowa Chapman e-mail: iowac@earthlink.net Webpage: http://home.earthlink.net/~iowac/ From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 13:24:13 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:17:50 -0400 From: Derek Schwab To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: cars uphill/banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Tracy Miller wrote: > > At 01:02 PM 4/18/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Even stranger than rolling uphill- > > Around this area, cars driven by little, gray haired people (aliens? > >religious cult? both?) mysteriously turn left just in front of oncoming > >traffic. The car's turn signals never seem to be functioning properly, > >possibly because of electromagnetic interference. > > Hmmm....I've experienced this not-uncommon-enough phenomenon. It resulted > in $1800 in body work. > Where is Fox Mulder when you need him?! Another strange phenomenon is that when they cause a wreck, they think your at fault. From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 14:21:31 1997 From: Davis_Karen To: "'halloween-l@netcom.com'" Subject: RE: cars uphill/banter Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:11:06 -0400 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >Where is Fox Mulder when you need him?! ...i don't know...but if you find him...he's MINE!!!!... >karen > From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 14:22:55 1997 From: Davis_Karen To: "'halloween-l@netcom.com'" Subject: RE: cars uphill /banter Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:13:16 -0400 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >> found a 'spook hill' >> place here in maryland...northwest of frederick...where it happens >> also... > >We have a place here in California called "The Mystry Spot" where odd >things like this happen in this area.. balls roll uphill, and the >gravity is just different in this little spot.. it was very wierd.. but >you could tell the difference.. pretty cool actually. ...yeah,...at the place above frederick, you could feel 'something' pulling against your body... karen From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 14:33:21 1997 From: Davis_Karen To: "'halloween-l@netcom.com'" Subject: RE: cars uphill/banter Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:15:16 -0400 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com >Ahhh the laws of physics, where are they when you need 'em? >...my favorite is '186,000 mph...its a law we can live with'... >And why do I always have to abide by them? >...but that's the point...at these places...you don't... >Even stranger than rolling uphill- > Around this area, cars driven by little, gray haired people (aliens? >religious cult? both?) mysteriously turn left just in front of oncoming >traffic. The car's turn signals never seem to be functioning properly, >possibly because of electromagnetic interference. ...same thing here... >Oh well, back to being stuck here by gravity. :( ...gravity doesn't exist...the earth sucks... >karen From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 15:18:43 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 18:15:45 -0400 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: ron byrd Subject: Joppa Reunion Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Any and all former cast and crew members of the Hauunted House of Joppa are urged to contact Ron Byrd : lastframe@mindspring.com . I am trying to organize a reunion of the cast and crew of the HHoJ. So many have passed over to the other side that we need to get together before we are all justmemories.. Ron Byrd From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 15:44:43 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:34:25 -0700 From: david c schwend To: Halloween-L Subject: Anti-Gravity Hill ... Banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Karen Davis wrote: > ...ummmm,...hate to tell you this, fella, but i've been to lake wales, > florida...home of 'spook hill' where the cars DO roll uphill... I worked on a Haunted House in 1976 that was held at the now defunct Belmont Amusement Park in San Diego. Among other things, we took over their "Enchanted Land" section, where they had gathered various fun house attractions from all over the country. They had moving stairways, slides, Barrels, an early version of "The Black Hole", fun house mirrors, and two rooms with the following sign at the door ... "See If You Can Guess Where We Have Installed Giant Magnets to Attract The Iron in Your Body." Sure enough, as soon as you entered a room, you were unmistakably pulled to one of the walls. Also ... There's a spot on Highway 38, in Southern California, just after it crosses the San Andreas Fault and heads into the San Bernardino Mountains, where this also takes place. If you bring your car to a dead stop, and then take your foot off the brakes, you'll swear your car rolls uphill. Its right near the 100+ year old Mill Creek Hydro Electric plant. (Maybe something to do with the big magnets?;-) From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 15:56:35 1997 From: Scott Axworthy Subject: Contest Clarification (*Read*) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Hey all! Great dialog on the Ghost O'Matic, I always find the development process that happens (especially on something that seems simple) to be intriguing. I need to clarify something before we get any further. I know some of you are working diligently, but the contest is *not* officially underway yet. Until we get our categories straight, enough participants, and sponsors linked to the categories, the contest will not begin. And so far I have about 4 1/2 (the partial is interested but uncommitted at this time) replies so far. Not a very large field of entrants! For those of you waffling, please dive in. As you've seen from the posts so far, many ideas and suggestions will be offered through the process. Again, if you would are interested, send mail *OFFLINE* to scott@cdac.com. Here is the schedule: up to 4/21 (Monday) Collect responses from prospective entrants. 4/21 - 4/22 Work with sponsors to see if we have enough entrants and choose categories. 4/23 (Wednesday) Announce start or seek alternatives. 6/25 Currently planned deadline. 6/26 - 6/27 Judges pow-wow and make selections. 6/27 (Friday) Announce results. -Scott -- Scott Axworthy Phone: 206-649-7668 Cascade Design Automation Fax: 206-649-7600 scott@cdac.com http://www.cdac.com From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 16:30:05 1997 From: The Youngs To: "halloween-l@netcom.com" , "'Scott Axworthy'" Subject: OT- Magicians Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 19:28:13 -0400 Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com To any of you Magicians on the list (and I know there are a few) I pose this questions. Any ideas on what to get a fairly good magician as a Birthday present. It's from his wife so it can be a little more expensive. My husband's not a magician, but I thought I'd ask for a friend. Thanks Jacqui From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 17:00:16 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:48:41 -0700 From: david c schwend To: Halloween-L Subject: One of the All-Time Worst Haunted House Rooms - Banter Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com My last post got me thinking about that 1976 Haunted House. Part of the Enchanted Land included a "Western Town". It was really one big, odd shaped building with a western town facade. When we laid out the crowd flow, we decided to cut a few doors in falls to connect some internal spaces. As we got out the tape measures and started knocking on walls, it became apparent that there was some space missing in the building. When we cut through the walls, even the park owners were amased at what we found. Two long mazes with uneven floors, an upside down room with a toilet on the ceiling and a light fixture in the middle of the floor, and a room that appeared to have once supported an artificial fire (like the Disney Pirates). One of the all-time worst rooms was created that year on the ground floor of that building. We took six donated king size waterbeds (filled with water) and buried them in a foot and a half of beach sand (Belmont Amusement Park was at Mission Beach in San Diego). It was called "The Quick Sand Room" and our guests had to walk from one end of the room to the other, over the sand covered waterbeds. By the end of the second night (we were open for 14 that year), all six water beds had burst. We had beach sand tracked everywhere in Enchanted Land, then we had to get rid of the sand when we were done. Most of Belmont Park has since been bulldozed. I haven't been back to see. Recently a civic group raised money and restored the old wooden roller coaster. They must have new cars, the old ones didn't have any seat belts. If you wanted to stay in the car, it was your responsibility to tuck your toes under the pipe by your feet. From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 17:29:58 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 19:25:56 -0500 From: Gertrude Smith To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: CHARITABLE CONTRIBUTIONS Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Wil wrote: > > Hey all. I thought I would accept donations for a local shelter for my > home haunt this year. Does any of you have any info on this? I'm > interested in; > > 1) Does accepting contributions for a tax-deductible organization expose > me to becoming any kind of business in any way? Depends on local ordinances, kind of like how they handle yard sales, I guess, since it's at your house. > 2) Would I be able to finance any of my props and events using part of > the initial proceeds? (Not my real reason for suggesting the donations, > but rather an automatic question after deciding to do such.) Check with the charities' financial institution and treasurer. > 3) Should I ask the organization to become involved in any way? > (Battered Women & Children) They probably would like to help all they can, as well as be on hand to show they are actively involved in the project rather than just having someone do all the work for them. > 4) Does accepting these doanations expose me to further liabilites? Check with your lawyer, insurance agent and previous posts to this list. > 5) Would the potential cost of a buck or two turn off 'weenies, or > encourage them to show up to check it out? We charged $2.00 for adults and $l.00 for kids for our Main Street store HH and had many re-runs. If you have a "reputation" for having a great show every year but it wasn't "open to the public", you could have an extra incentive for folks to tour. P.S. we are HALLO-WEEN-ERS! Spoil-sports are HALLO-WEEN-IES! > Thanks in advance for your input. > -- > Wil > X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X > Rest in Peace > Death Lord > '97 Topic Archives- > http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/haloween.htm > X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Keep us posted on how this project is developing for you! If it takes off, don't forget to PUBLICIZE your efforts! This could get you even more front-end funding, helpers, materials, etc. GERTRUDE SMITH gsrator@arkansas.net From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 18:04:32 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:57:43 -0700 From: Brian Rich To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: Pneumatic devices/solenods Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Iowa Chapman wrote: > > Ok folks, I was thinking about where to get a Pneumatic air valve > solenoid,C&H Sales has a catalog. Call 'em at (213) 681-4925 and tell 'em you're a big time factiory maintenange person. Thay'll get you a catalog right away. -- ---------------------------------------- Brian W. Rich SBIR Stuff: http://www.sbir.com My Stuff: http://www.west.net/~science From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 18:18:04 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:12:20 -0500 From: Gertrude Smith To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: [Fwd: FW: E-Forum: Mailing list humor] Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3AC6584BCA9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron Lupo wrote: > > Hello everyone--I came across this today and thought I'd pass it along. Read it, smile, copy it, pass it on, delete it. > > >>>> Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take > >>>> to change a light bulb? > > >>>> A: 1,331: > > >>>> 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail > >>>> list that the light bulb has been changed. > > >>>> 14 to share similar experiences of changing light > >>>> bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. > > >>>> 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. > > >>>> 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about > >>>> changing light bulbs. > > >>>> 53 to flame the spell checkers. > > >>>> 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about > >>>> the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list. > > >>>> 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. > > >>>> 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and > >>>> to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb > > >>>> 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, > >>>> alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped. > > >>>> 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we > >>>> are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to > >>>> this mail list. > > >>>> 306 to debate which method of changing light > >>>> bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of > >>>> light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty. > > >>>> 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of > >>>> different light bulbs. > > >>>> 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and > >>>> to post corrected URLs. > > >>>> 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that > >>>> are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this > >>>> list. > > >>>> 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote > >>>> them including all headers and footers, and then add "Me Too." > > >>>> 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing > >>>> because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy. > > >>>> 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." > > >>>> 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. > > >>>> 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup. > > >>>> 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion > >>>> was meant for, leave it here. > > >>>> 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb. > > Ron --------------3AC6584BCA9 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >From sshea@world.std.com Fri Apr 18 16:32:28 1997 Return-Path: sshea@world.std.com Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with ESMTP id QAA19277 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:32:27 GMT Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA02977; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:24:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: europe.std.com: daemon set sender to rocks-and-fossils-approval using -f Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id LAA02968; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orionlink.net (osglink.orionlink.net) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25939; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:24:39 -0400 Received: from holly (dialup92.orionsystems.com [204.141.5.92]) by orionlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA08627 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:24:28 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:24:28 -0400 Message-Id: <199704181524.LAA08627@orionlink.net> X-Sender: ron@osglink.orionlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: rocks-and-fossils@world.std.com From: Ron Lupo Subject: FW: E-Forum: Mailing list humor Sender: rocks-and-fossils-approval@world.std.com Precedence: list Reply-To: rocks-and-fossils@world.std.com Hello everyone--I came across this today and thought I'd pass it along, particularly in light of all the recent posts here about appropriateness/inappropriatness of messages, too much traffic, etc. Read it, smile, then delete it. >>>> Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take >>>> to change a light bulb? >>>> A: 1,331: >>>> 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail >>>> list that the light bulb has been changed. >>>> 14 to share similar experiences of changing light >>>> bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. >>>> 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. >>>> 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about >>>> changing light bulbs. >>>> 53 to flame the spell checkers. >>>> 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about >>>> the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list. >>>> 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. >>>> 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and >>>> to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb >>>> 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, >>>> alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be >>>> stopped. >>>> 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we >>>> are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to >>>> this mail list. >>>> 306 to debate which method of changing light >>>> bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of >>>> light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty. >>>> 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of >>>> different light bulbs. >>>> 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and >>>> to post corrected URLs. >>>> 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that >>>> are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this >>>> list. >>>> 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote >>>> them including all headers and footers, and then add "Me Too." >>>> 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing >>>> because they cannot handle the light bulb controversey. >>>> 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." >>>> 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. >>>> 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup. >>>> 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion >>>> was meant for, leave it here. >>>> 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb. Ron --------------3AC6584BCA9-- From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 18:20:40 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 18:18:32 -0700 Subject: One of the All-Time Worst Haunted House Rooms - Ba To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com (long post about a haunted house and the Belmont rollercoaster). Wierdly enough, as a rollercoaster maniac, I do know about the coaster restoration and have some pieces of track and blueprints from it :) Didn't know they had a haunted house there, where was it located? where the parking lot is now or one of the building restored? Harry [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 20:26:35 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:21:23 -0500 From: DJ To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: CHARITABLE CONTRIBUTIONS Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com Someone asked: > 2) Would I be able to finance any of my props and events using part of > the initial proceeds? I hope no one takes this the wrong way, but regardless of what the laws might say I can't help feeling this would be in very poor taste. We do our haunt as a charity each year for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. I cannot imagine taking money that patrons donate for the hospital and using it to buy props or pay utilities. I don't think the contributors would appreciate it, either. We pay *all* the expenses; that's why we call it a "charity" event. If donated money was used for props, I could never consider keeping them with a clean conscience. I would donate them to the charity along with the money collected. I hope this wasn't offensive. Nothing personal is intended; I just have strong feelings about this. DJ, who's stepping down off her soap box now From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 20:39:00 1997 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:35:42 -0500 (CDT) From: John Dolan To: Halloween-L Subject: One of the all time worst HHs Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com David's post made me think of this- I'm a big fan of haunts and have had the pleasure of attending literally dozens of all styles and sizes. I can honestly say that I have always found at least something I liked at each and every attraction and have generally felt that I got my moneys worth. I would never think of crit- isizing a particular haunt in a semi-public forum because I feel it is simply unprofessional (just a personal opinion).With one exception: The place, I believe, was called "Alien Encounter". I initially thought it was going to be a pretty good haunt because they did a fair amount of advertising and it was set-up in a "laser tag" facility (a haunt operator's dream right?). Well the haunt was so bad it won't take long to review. Upon entering the building you had the strange sensation you were in the wrong place. There were no signs,decorations, etc., to indicate it was a haunt. We walked up to a door with an attend- ant and asked if we were in the right place.He assured us we were and told us it would be a few minutes. After a 15 min wait, we were greeted by our guide, a teen wearing army fatigues and carrying a laser gun."Follow me",were the only instructions we recieved. The rest of the entire "haunt" consisted of "actors" in alien costumes jumping out of hiding places every 30 ft. or so, and our "protector" tour guide shooting them with his laser gun. That's it, nothing more. No decorated sets,no props, nothing. I believe in reality there were actually only 4 actors playing aliens who would simply run ahead to the next post to be "killed" again! The entire amount spent on this attraction was maybe $1000.00, and most of it on advertising. I think it's pretty obvious that this was one operator who didn't care what-so-ever about the quality of the show he was presenting and was only looking for a way to "cash in" on the Halloween craze. The admission price you ask? Only $10.00!!!!! Well enough ranting for now, ;) JD jdolan@titan.iwu.edu From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 22:33:34 1997 From: Spookyfx@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 01:20:59 -0400 (EDT) To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: CHARITABLE CONTRIBUTIONS Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com In a message dated 97-04-19 01:12:03 EDT, you write: << I hope no one takes this the wrong way, but regardless of what the laws might say I can't help feeling this would be in very poor taste. We do our haunt as a charity each year for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. I cannot imagine taking money that patrons donate for the hospital and using it to buy props or pay utilities. I don't think the contributors would appreciate it, either. We pay *all* the expenses; that's why we call it a "charity" event. If donated money was used for props, I could never consider keeping them with a clean conscience. I would donate them to the charity along with the money collected. I hope this wasn't offensive. Nothing personal is intended; I just have strong feelings about this. DJ, who's stepping down off her soap box now >> ------------------------------------------------ Your not being realistic, If I had to pay for all the props myself, I would not have been able to generat ANY money for the fundraisers... The hardware store that sells the paint, The costume shop that sells the makeup, The printer that sells the tickets etc. all get paid in order to do the HH inthe first place. That how MOST big fundraisers work. I HAVE taken a lose on the cost of my equipment, I LOVE what I do, but not everyone who has the talent also has the money to sponser the HH all by themself... down off my soapbox... jerry From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 22:40:53 1997 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 01:32:43 -0400 To: halloween-l@netcom.com From: ron byrd Subject: Haunted House of Joppa Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com The following story appeared in the Aegis newspaper; published in Bel Air, Maryland, on October 26, 1978. It tells the story of one of the greatest Haunted Houses of all time. While this is an accurate telling of the production aspects of the HHoJ, it is in no way complete. There is an entire legend that is on cassette tape that was made 30 years ago and tells the story of the "Legend of Jamie and Martha McPherson: A Haunted Love Story". I am in the process of transcribing this tape and will make the transcription available in the Fall. The only reason I'm doing this is to keep the legend and spirit of the Haunted House of Joppa alive. If you would like a copy please e-mail me at: lastframe@mindspring.com If there are any former cast members out there PLEASE contact me. And now, the transcription of the article: THE SCARIEST HOUSE IN JOPPA THRILLS THOUSANDS EACH YEAR by: Beverly Black "I've never been so scared in my entire life. Total blackness, blood-curlding screams, flashing lights, monsters and ugly creatures appearing from nowhere, gruesome hands reaching to touch you, long narrow passages leading into the bowels of Hell, a horrifying half hour spent in the Haunted House of Joppa. The only thing real was the cold, sweaty palms of the person in front of, and behind me. Seven of us humans clung desparetly to each other as we walked through the haunted house, trying to make jokes and remind ourselves that it was all make believe. But remembering that the witches and the ghosts are only actors is difficult in the Haunted House of Joppa. The elevator down to Hell, the piano that plays by itself, the tortured people in cages, the witch who disappears before your eyes; they all magically take you into their world, leaving reality far berhind. Approximately 3,000 humans tour the Haunted House on Route 7 in Joppa every year, and many more would probably pay the $2.50 to see the show if John Holter, the mastermind behind theoperation, would permit it. But Mr. Holter, who has been running the Haunted House for 13 years, said it would be too much work for the volunteers to handle a larger attendance. So each year, on the last ten days in October, the Haunted House of Joppa thrills the priviledged 2,960 who are fortunate enough to obtain tickets. The tickets go on sale October 1st. at 7 a.m. and are usually sold out within an hour and a half. Connie Holwinski, one of the directors at the Haunted House, said people began standing in line at 4 p.m. Sept. 30, this year to buy tickets the next morning. All of the 2,960 tickets were sold out by 8:15 a.m., she said. "Each year people camp out, they bring their TV, cards, and sleeping bags." The tour is based on the legend of the McPherson family who owned the house which stood on the spot of the present structure. One Martha McPherson made a pact with the devil in the house and later tried to break the agreement on the night a ball was being held there. The devil was supposedly so angered by the attempt to break the pact that he summoned up a fireball which burned the house to the ground. The Holter house, which was erected on the site of the old McPherson home, is converterd into the Haunted House each October. There are 90 volunteers who help with the directing, make-up, and technical work, according to Mr. Holter. The cast is comprised of 120 volunteers, mostly high school students. The show is put on 37 times a night, a new group begins the tour every five minutes. Timing is one of the most important factors in the success of the Haunted House, the 44 year old Mr. Holter explains. Groups of eight are guided through the house by witches, ghosts, and other creatures. The groups are advised to stay close and hold hands, advice which is usually already in effect before it has been given. The special effects, the lighting, the sound, and the entire back stage operations are so professionally done that even representatives from Disney World have come to visit the Haunted House of Joppa and praised the superb manner in which it is crerated and run, according to Mr. Holter. There are control stations throughout the house which are manned by volunteers who work the special effects, sound, and lighting. All of the stations are wired so that volunteers can be in touch with other directors and technicians in all areas. Mr. Holter, who is a magician in addition to being a professional photographer, writer, and gourmet cook, is constantly coming up with new ideas for the House and making changes. He presently has plans to construct a grand finale to the Haunted House which he calls "Nightmare Five." Mr. Holter will not explain what Nightmare Five is going to be other than that it will be necesssary to have a large tent erected next to the house to contain it, and once it is completed, the Haunted House will have reached its utmost glory. He plans to have Nightmare Five completed for the 20-year anniversary of the Haunted House. The part-time magician call his Haunted House "a huge hobby," one which he works on year-round. "It's here for pure entertainment," he says. "It's all haunted, there is no blood and guts," used to scare the ticket holders. But the tour does scare most of those guided through the house. Mr. Holter says he uses a lot of magic, darkness, and sound to crerate the desired effect. He will not reveal any of the secrets he uses to perform the tricks and unusual happenings. All of the directors, technicians, and actors are volunteers, but Mr. Holter says it still costs between $5,000 and $6,000 each year to put the show together. After the equipment and all other costs are taken care of, the remaining thousand or so dollars are donated to the Joppa-Magnolia Volunteer Fire Company. He emphasized that the Haunted House is not a non-profit organization, "If there is something new we need, we take the money out of the profits to buy it." All of the masks for the show are purchased, although many of thefaces are painted with make-up to create a horrifying effect. Many of the volunteers make their own costumes, Mr. Holter added. He says the students enjoy doing the show so much that many come back year after year. The Haunted House is designed for entertainment of all ages, and it manages to scare the older generation as well as the younger. Mr. Holter says residents of all ages tour the Haunted House, and often the older members are more frightened than the younger ones. It is not recommended that children under six be permitted to go through the house unless the parents think they are capable of such a show." The Haunted House of Joppa never made it to it's 20th anniversary and the " Nightmare Five" never became a reality. The owners of the house, some of which still live on the premises, closed the Haunted House when it became apparent that people were suing each other for petty reasons and such lawsuits were expensive. Being a private residence, the Holters could not risk losing their house. If anyone is interested in the actual legend or wants to know more about the Haunted House of Joppa, or are a former cast or crew member, please e-mail me: lastframe@mindspring.com It is imperrative that this spirit remain alive. Ron Byrd eireshade Ron Byrd From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 22:57:15 1997 From: htraver@dreamsys.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:51:44 -0700 Subject: One of the all time worst HHs To: halloween-l@netcom.com Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com My personal all time worst haunted house was THE HOUSE located in Westminster some 2 years ago. They charged $10, had a large sign that they were rated as THE best haunted house in the country by whoever. Inside was a large layout, dimly lit. Methinks they merely filtered the store flourescents to real fdim and left them there. The rooms were fairly uninspired, and to top off the disappointing factor, one of the supervisors was pissed that I was dictating notes into my pocket taperecorder and went as far to demand my tape, claiming trade secrets. There was nothing out of the ordinary or noteworthy to THE HOUSE whatsoever. I have seen more clever backyard haunts. Harry [ Sent From: Dreamscape Systems - dreamsys.com ] [ Location: Van Nuys, CA - (818) 781-7529 ] From owner-halloween-l@majordomo.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 23:05:43 1997 Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 22:57:45 -0700 From: Death Lord To: halloween-l@netcom.com Subject: Re: CHARITABLE CONTRIBUTIONS Reply-To: halloween-l@netcom.com DJ wrote: > I hope this wasn't offensive. Nothing personal is intended; I just > have strong feelings about this. > > DJ, who's stepping down off her soap box now No. That's cool. I was only inquiring because at the rate I'm going, I'm not too far from having a home haunt that would command entrance fees. But not completely. If I lay out any more money on this, I would like it to be for more of a worthy cause than just that I love Halloween. In the same thought, I felt that if I were to beef up the props somewhat with the donations, I could get even more people to turn out, making more for the charity. However, if I thought for one second any of this was in poor taste even slightly, I wouldn't even offer to put out a cauldron for the battered women and children. They have it tough enough without me adding to their dissappointments in life. Wil -- X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X+X Rest in Peace. The Death Lord http://www.silcom.com/~crafters/haloween.htm